Top set on a dangerous flop, in PLO*

[GaZaZaZa]

I am always troubled as to what to do in a situation like this...

Was playing 1/2 PLO8 6 max, relative stacks are $200

My hand is a-4-k-k in the BB... one limper and button raiser, both players are you fairly standard weak tight passive players who are most likly sight losers at the game.

flop comes k-4-5 with two spades, i have no spades.

First question is.. do i lead out, if so what do i do when i get re-raised?

I decided to however check, first limper bet pot, second re-raised pot, whats my play here? And also what do u do in general when you flop top set on a dangerous bored such as this, with no to little re-draws, do u try to put as much money in as possible or wait for a safe turn. If your do decide to put your money in later, but as i was are forced to put it in on the flop, what then??

appreciate your responses

[Buzz]

[ QUOTE ]
flop comes k-4-5 with two spades, i have no spades.

First question is.. do i lead out, if so what do i do when i get re-raised?

[/ QUOTE ]GaZaZaZa - Yes. You bet to protect your hand. You can't afford to give a free draw.

[ QUOTE ]
I decided to however check, first limper bet pot, second re-raised pot, whats my play here?

[/ QUOTE ]I don't know. Do both of these opponents have a flush draw plus a low draw? (If so, their chances of making the flush are diminished, each by the other).

If I simulate, giving them both flush draws and low draws, you're ahead. If I simulate giving one of the a flush draw plus a back-door straight draw, but no low draw and the other a low draw with counterfeit protection, you're ahead of the flush draw but behind the low draw. (As simulated against this latter array, you improve to a full house or quads about 36% and to a back-door straight another 1%).

I think you have to presume if the board flushes but does not pair, one of them will bet the amount in the pot on the next betting round, and then you cannot call. But that will only happen between 9/45 and 1/45 (probably closest to 8/45 or 7/45). If the board does not flush on the next card, then you should pot it.

But what should you do on this betting round? I guess you just call and hope for the best, or at least not the worst.

You'll improve to a full house or quads, (both almost certain winners here) roughly just under one third of the time (p=0.309)in the next two cards, but only 6/45 on the next card.

(the math: 6/45+3/45*8/44+36/45*9/44 = 0.309) Note that this is different from the simulated result because we don't really know what cards your opponents hold. As simulated, without thinking about it, I didn't give either opponent one of your primary outs (king, four, or five). At any rate, it's moot. You figure probability on the basis of the information you have. If I re-ran the simulation leaving both opponent's hands blank, Hero would improve to a full house or quads 30.9% rather than 36%.

Bottom line: I don't fold here. Hard to say whether to re-raise or call without knowing your opponents. I think I like a re-raise better than a call.

[ QUOTE ]
And also what do u do in general when you flop top set on a dangerous bored such as this, with no to little re-draws,

[/ QUOTE ]You bet to protect your hand, and to avoid getting into an awkward situation such as this.

[ QUOTE ]
do u try to put as much money in as possible or wait for a safe turn.

[/ QUOTE ]It's not a matter of getting as much money in as possible. It's a matter of protecting your hand.

[ QUOTE ]
If your do decide to put your money in later, but as i was are forced to put it in on the flop, what then??

[/ QUOTE ]I think your decide what to do later on a case by case basis. In general,
(1) if the board flushes on the turn, I think you give it up,
(2) if the board pairs on the turn, you do what you can to optimize the pot, depending on your opponents, and
(3) if the board neither flushes nor pairs on the turn, you bet the pot to protect your set of kings.

Then on the river, assuming you still have opponents and are still in the hand yourself, you reassess as makes sense.

Keep in mind that I only rarely get to play this game pot limit. There are probably at least a dozen people who post here who know more about how to play pot limit Omaha-8 than I do.

Buzz

[StrikeR300]

Leading out, & checking are pretty close here (pf raisers/EP limpers especially tight ones like this flop A LOT, & you can expect a call/bet/raise almost everytime in a typical 6-Max game).

The Disadvantages to both:
-Leading out could kill your multi-way action in this raised up pot.
-Checking could give a free card for them to make their Low/Straight/Flush (however this would likely only happen if they had trash draws--Naked NL, High FD only, etc. As stated above, everything in the above stated players range (tight PFR/EP limpcall) very likely wacked their hands.

Synopsis:
You're slightly behind to a big NLD/NFD/Straight draw, but with another player comming along both players likely have shared outs. In this particular spot your check worked perfectly, call the RRPot with the intention of getting it all-in 3-way -or- on a turn 9-Qos/Big Full/Quads (although a ReRePot would not be all together horrible).

[Drizztdj]

A better question would be, what if a low card hits the turn?

Do you pot/shove being fairly certain that you're playing for half the pot and potentially getting freerolled?

[bbartlog]

what if a low card hits the turn

If
- it doesn't enable a flush or straight, or
- your read of the situation is that the straight is unlikely,
*and*
- calling a turn bet puts most or all of your stack in, so that you won't be facing a potentially further huge escalation on the river

... then check/call. Otherwise check/fold. Betting top set once the low is actually out there is a bad idea except in unusual circumstances.