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  #31  
Old 11-08-2007, 06:48 PM
4_2_it 4_2_it is offline
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Default Re: My take... [long]

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1 hour of saxophone a day 5 days a week

[/ QUOTE ]Five hours of solo piano every day - plus occasional practice with band - plus paid gigs.

Buzz

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I think I saw one of your gigs.

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  #32  
Old 11-09-2007, 01:02 AM
deacsoft deacsoft is offline
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Default Re: My take... [long]

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We need a standardized set of rules/regulations for all Mods and members to follow.

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I disagree. Mods should simply try to follow Mason’s reason for the existence of the forums (quoted above). Administrators (Mat or Ryan) should deal privately and individually with wayward mods.

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That's pretty much how things have been going and I see no improvement, only the continued decrease of quality and increase of bickering. I wish it could be as simple as what you stated but I'm afraid that in reality things are going to take much more than "follow Mason’s reason for the existence of the forums". As far as I know, Mason's always had the same viewpoint on this, and I think what he wants and expects has always been simple and clear. Yet here we are.

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This should include, but not necessarily be limited to...
1. A code of conduct. This would state that Mods are expected to uphold the standard of "top quality"and "integrity" and "to have vigorous debate without insults" (to quote Mason). Mods will be respectful of each other, the Admins, and the forum members. Mods will not leak Mod Discussion forum specific information to any other member of 2+2. etc, etc. Mods should follow this or be stripped of their Mod status.

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When someone comes into your house you don’t tell them to not piss on the couch. That goes without saying.

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Again, I wish it were that simple. Why give anyone the chance to use ignorance as an excuse for something that should be clearly obvious? If these things went without saying why are people leaving the forums due to Mods being abusive? Why are Mods being abusive in the first place? In my perfect world we'd all just get along with each other, but clearly some of us (Mods and Members) just don't get it. I simply propose that we put it out there and get everyone flying the same flag. We get everyone on the same page. We make everyone aware and do it as specifically as possible. The less room for interpretation the less room for misunderstanding.

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2. List of rules and punishments. This would state some specific and general examples of violations and the appropriate punishments for offenders.

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No. If a guest pissed on your couch, or did something else that anyone with the maturity of a normal ten year old would know is inappropriate, then I imagine you’d respond to that.

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Of course, a response would be needed. But if everyone knows what that response should be... everyone's on the same page. There's no need to ask what to do. There's no one that complain that they're being treated any different than anyone else. I think the clear reason for this is so everyone is aware and is on the same page.

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If you set up limits, some of jerk posters, that one percent, or whatever, would push the limits to see what they could get away with. Better just to expect them to behave properly and deal with those who don’t.

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If they want to push the limits they can. They'll be punished the same as anyone else for their infraction. Expecting everyone to behave appropriately is what we've been doing and, obviously, it's not working as well as it could be.

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Mods need the leeway to deal with posters as they see fit. And if they act inappropriately, then it should be up to an administrator to step in. Mat currently gives us a lot of leeway and that’s good and necessary.

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I agree with what you're saying here. I think there's a certain amount of leeway necessary. But only the Mod that finds a problem is going to know about it. It's kind of like speeding. Cop pulls you over and has a procedure to follow. Ultimately, the cop decides whether or not to fine you. The same holds true on the forums. I'm okay with minor infractions being overlooked by a Mod who's using good judgment. But that doesn't mean that no procedure is needed. And on major infractions we should all know what's what and how to handle it.

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This would help to appropriately punish repeat offenders.

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I suspect that if a guest in your house does something inappropriate enough, he won’t be a repeat offender (because he won’t get the chance to be a repeat offender).

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I believe there are a number of little things that someone can do wrong on these forums, and doesn't deserve to be perma-banned for it. But if that same member continues to repeat the same infraction after being told once, twice, three times... an escalated punishment is reasonable. Guidelines stating what such escalated punishments should be would keep everyone treated the same and get the Mods on the same page.

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If Mods have an issue with another Mods or a member they should handle it privately via PM.

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Issues with other mods should absolutely be handled privately. That goes without saying. An issue with a member might be another matter if the member makes a public untrue and/or accusatory post. I don’t know. Depends, I think. But that’s not something that needs a code of behavior book.

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Again, if it went without saying I don't believe there would be as much drama as there is. Things said publicly that are untrue certainly warrant a rebuttal, but things of that nature have no business in the forums in the first place. Any such posts should be deleted immediately. This is a place to share poker knowledge. It's a place to teach and to learn and have fun doing it. There's no need for anything but.

We agree on much and seem to see other things a little differently. I appreciate your thoughts and value your input. I wish none of what I suggest would be needed, but I think this site is at a crossroad. Apparently Mat is of a similar opinion. Things are not going well. Sure, they could be worse. It's not like we're standing at the gates of hell or anything. It's still a great site with great people and there's a ton of great information here. But things could certainly be better. They were better. Steps can be taken make it better. I don't want to have to take these steps. I wish everything could go without saying. I wish everyone could behave appropriately and treat everyone else with respect. Unfortunately that's just not the way it is. We've let many things go too far by trying to be cool about everything. The site's daily workings and reputation are being tarnished because of it.

I'm not going to push for any of this. I'm not going to say I'm right and anyone else is wrong. I'm simply going to say my piece, take to heart all feedback, and reply to what I feel I should reply to. I have few issues with just leaving things alone if everyone wants to believe everything is fine the way it is. I'll continue to do what I think is right and continue to Mod my forum to the best of my abilities. But I truly believe this site can be better for everyone. What I've proposed may take some work now and may cause some issues with people not open to changing the way some things are done/handled. But in the long run I believe it will make things better. I also think that implementing any of these ideas could be done in a timely manner with the upgrade of the site. So I'm basically saying that if changes are going to be made now would probably be a good time to get things rolling.
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  #33  
Old 11-09-2007, 01:09 AM
Mat Sklansky Mat Sklansky is offline
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Default Re: My take... [long]

Hold on to your thoughts. I think any changes will be easier to implement with the upcoming toolset. I'm likely to forget all about this post when we switch over and we are dealing with all the chaos of change.

So remind me when the time comes by bumping this thread along with any specific ideas. I think that's the next step for you, actually. Give me some specifics. Certainly I'm all for improvement, but I need specific proposals.
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  #34  
Old 11-09-2007, 04:08 AM
deacsoft deacsoft is offline
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Default Re: My take... [long]

I will hold on to my thoughts and to this thread. However, the "specifics", I had envisioned would come from everyone. I never foresaw trying to make things right by myself. My hope was that others who care about this site and share my wants to improve it would contribute. Even if only in this thread. I don't want to do things my way, nor do I think anyone should. I wanted to help get the ball rolling, so that others would contribute. Many of my thoughts and ideas may be correct or incomplete. I'm counting on everyone's feedback and thoughts to help better this for everyone.
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  #35  
Old 11-15-2007, 12:46 AM
Lottery Larry Lottery Larry is offline
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Default Re: My take... [long]

and you said there wasn't anything for me to read, to bone up on mod-dom....

Shame on you, Mat! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
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  #36  
Old 11-15-2007, 04:13 PM
deacsoft deacsoft is offline
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Default Re: My take... [long]

I'd also like to include my recommendations from this thread in my proposed changes.
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