Winning in Tough Hold 'em Games

[jfk]

[ QUOTE ]
It contains some of the most dynamic material we have ever published, and I have been working with it to improve my own limit play.

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Mason,

Many readers would be interested in hearing the specific ways in which this book has helped improve your limit game.

[avatar77]

The limit games in my area are: 4/8 (very loose game and winnable if you apply SSH) and 10/20 and 20/40.

My questions are:
I would like to know if this book will serve me any good if I continue to play 4/8 or are the concepts just too sophisticated/advanced to apply to the easier games?

What specific concepts does this book cover which isn't covered thoroughly in SSH and HPFAP?

[afish]

[ QUOTE ]
The limit games in my area are: 4/8 (very loose game and winnable if you apply SSH) and 10/20 and 20/40.

My questions are:
I would like to know if this book will serve me any good if I continue to play 4/8 or are the concepts just too sophisticated/advanced to apply to the easier games?

What specific concepts does this book cover which isn't covered thoroughly in SSH and HPFAP?

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been working through the book, and in my view the concepts don't come into play in loose games. I think there are spots where the book can help in 20-40, but I doubt it would even make sense to someone who is only playing 4-8 (because you will never see opponents react in the ways discussed in the book).

[amulet]

as usual, i agree with jfk.

i found the book interesting and thought provoking. however, i found some of the ideas easy to understand but difficult to embrace. i disagreed with parts of the book. it is possible that i missed a lot and that i am incorrect. therefore, mason, can you elaborate on why the book is helping your game and it what ways it is helping?

thanks.

[daveT]

amulet, if I recall in jfk's review, he wrote that with SSH and HOH, he regrets seeing this book published. JFK is trying to get Mason to sell the book, not justify it's existence.

I think the problem with the book is that it is aimed at a small audience. I know that the book is wonderful, but it is useless in games most people play, as very few players play at the level this book is written for. Also, many players have a plug up their bums about playing limit. For the player pool it is aimed toward, it is selling very well.

[Cactus Jack]

No one can say enough good things about WITHG. It's superb.

Where SSHE is for loose multiway games, WITHG is for tight games where you get headsup. It's the book for going mano y mano.

The blinds section is the reference source. Nobody has come close to it.

As for limit, who cares if most are playing NL? When they start playing mixed games, they'll be DOA. The vast majority of NL players cannot play well after the flop. That's where expert limit players make their money. They've made thousands and thousands of decisions on the turn and river, where even players with lots of experience in NL rarely have to make river decisions.

Those who can play both have the world in their hands. Find a good game, whichever it is, and take home the guitas.

CJ

[MicroBob]

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I know that the book is wonderful, but it is useless in games most people play, as very few players play at the level this book is written for.

[/ QUOTE ]


I think this book has relevance all the way down to 3/6 limit 6-max online.
Perhaps even down to 1/2 limit.

Can also be applied to many limit full-ring games online down to 3/6 or even 1/2 which seem to be tighter than ever. Not necessarily THAT tough. But you don't have nearly as many people practically trying to give their money away by playing 100% of their hands as you did just a few years ago.
You do have a bunch of players who fall anywhere between 11/2 to 20/12 though and you have tables that get folded around to late-position or the blinds an awful lot.

Lots of these games don't really fall under Ed Miller's SSHE as much imo. It can constantly get folded around to the HJ or CO and you are either going to be attempting to steal the blinds with your 55 or K8s or whatever or you are going to be defending your BB with those hands.
Those heads-up "should I steal or attempt to defend with this hand and how do I go about playing it post-flop?" type of situations are addressed extremely well in Stox's book.

[amulet]

i play limit at very high stakes, and often shorthanded. as i wrote, the book made me think, however, there was a lot i disagreed with.

i would like to hear why you, mason, and maybe jfk thought it was so wonderful, and what parts all of you thought improved your game.

[steamboatin]

I will confess. I have avoided buying this book because I avoid tough lmit games. I know I will eventually buy it because when the NL boom runs its course, I need to be ready.

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi amulet:

It's very helpful in games where players are very agressive, much more so than they use to be. This relates to not only starting hands including attacking and defending the blinds, but in play against this kind of player from the flop on.

Best wishes,
Mason