Guns in America

[Taso]

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Also, I don't remember the exact number, but something like 45 states have a specific individual right to bear arms in their state constitutions.

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This can be overriden by the federal constitution.

[benfranklin]

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In my opinion, there is no "gun-control problem" at all, in fact it is just the opposite; it is a travesty that more Americans do not own firearms (less than half of all households).




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Some years back, there was a rash of robberies and car jackings of foreign tourists in Florida. A local reporter interviewed a prisoner who was convicted of several such crimes and asked why the new focus on tourists. The answer was that Florida had recently adopted a much more liberal policy of allowing citizens to carry guns, and the crooks knew that foreign tourists could not be armed.


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I propose that shooting skills, target competition, and firearm safety be a required class in all American High Schools and that responsible gun owernship is part of an individuals civil responsibility. At the end of the class everyone that passes is issued, free, one hand gun and one rifle at the school's expense (covered by issue of public bonds).

Happy shooting.

-Zeno


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Here, here. In the olden days of prehistory, I first learned to shoot in the Boy Scouts, probably at about age 12. I also took a class in Gun Safety and Marksmanship as a physical education elective in college. My university had a rifle range under the stadium grandstands. I'm sure that the mere suggestion of such things would cause cardiac arrest in the majority of today's nanny-staters.

[pig4bill]

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I was glancing through the 'numbers' section of the most recent Time Magazine.

One portion absolutely amazed me:

90
Number of guns in the U.S. for every 100 citizens, according to the 2007 Small Arms Survey, making it the most heavily armed country in the world. India has the second largest civilian gun-arsenal tally, with just four firearms per 100 people.

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They're twisting the numbers like the typical propgandists they are. They say "the most" because in pure numbers, we do have the most. But then they throw in "90 guns for every 100 citizens". If they looked at percentages, the third world crapholes like Somalia and Bangladesh probably have a much higher per-capita ownership. You can walk down to the corner bazaar in those places and buy a fully automatic AK-47 machinegun for like 40 bucks.

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To me, these are just startling numbers. I've always felt a little uneasy about how easy it is to attain firearms in the U.S. and all "guns don't kill people, people kill people" arguments aside i truly believe most people aren't responsible enough to own one.

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Damn! Most of us should be dead! With 270 million guns running around loose in irresponsible hands in this country, it must be a freaking MIRACLE at least 5 or 10 million people a year aren't killed with guns.

As long as we're going around denying Constitutional rights based on beliefs, I don't believe most people are responsible enough to vote either. If people can't read English to the point that ballots have to be printed in 20 different languages, those people shouldn't be deciding how our country gets run. And how about the press? They leak national secrets, secret Grand Jury testimony (Bonds), make false accusations, declare elections won before counts are done, and just generally screw up. Shut the bastards down! No more free press.

[LuckOfTheDraw]

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I remember Paul Phillips wrote what I thought was a very good blog entry on this subject a while back, one that, honestly, changed my mind a little.

(digs up link)

ah, here we go: http://extempore.livejournal.com/180946.html

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I don't think that link offers any brilliant revelations, and I'm surprised that that argument can change anyone's mind. If it changed your mind, I guess you just hadn't given it enough thought. So, while I agree with most of it in principle, I do question the effectiveness of an individual's right to bear arms.

When the constitution was written, sure, a well armed populace would have just about been on an even keel with the government in terms of fighting power. But, today, if it ever came to a point where citizens were forced to defend themselves against the governement with weapons,I think firearms would be little more than an impedance. Paul says, "Mass exterminations are not possible against an armed populace. That is why the people are always legally disarmed first." I don't know if I agree with this. I think a more accurate statement might be, "Mass exterminations are much more difficult against an armed populace. That is why the people are always legally disarmed first."

[RoundTower]

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Some years back, there was a rash of robberies and car jackings of foreign tourists in Florida. A local reporter interviewed a prisoner who was convicted of several such crimes and asked why the new focus on tourists. The answer was that Florida had recently adopted a much more liberal policy of allowing citizens to carry guns, and the crooks knew that foreign tourists could not be armed.

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come on now, you don't really think the pro-gun people really care what happens to foreigners?

[RedBean]

Funs facts:

From 2001-2005 in the US:

An average of 42,000 people die in auto-accidents.
An average of 20,000 people die from the common flu.
An average of 17,000 people die from gun-related suicide.
An average of 11,000 people die from gun-related homicide.

When examining violent crime in the US from 2001-2005:

98% of violent crimes committed are non-fatal.

Of those, less than 10% are gun-related.

[xxThe_Lebowskixx]

"An average of 20,000 people die from the common flu."

you mean old people?

[NicksDad1970]

Those numbers surprise me as well. The first one seems a little misleading to me though. I know a dozen people alone that have between 75 and 100 guns. I probably know many more people that are in that range it just hasn't been talked about.

I mean it's not something you ask unless you're already talking about guns. I also know some people that won't buy guns from a store because they think the govt is tracking everyone. For a while I sold guns and there was one guy (pretty high up guy at FedEx) that would give me his drivers license but would keep it covered while he gave it to me because he thought people were watching him.

The second stat you provided I assume it's the US gets that % of guns available to civilians. Either way that # is surprising.

FTR I'm not a gun nut. I like guns and in times past I've owned up to about 20 of them. I looked at them as just "some cool sh** to have. I was never the guy who had an arsenal because we were going to be attacked errr something.

[renodoc]

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Is it possible for the government to abolish the right to bear arms by way of an amendment?

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Sure it is. If they go through the hassle of getting an amendment, the government can do about whatever they want as long as it doesn't spark a rebellion.

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Wow.

The gist of the matter here is the understanding that the right to bear arms (or defend oneself) is not granted by the constitution or the government. It is the natural right of man to do so. The Bill of Rights only serves to remind us of that. And just because you might be able to get a supermajority of people to "vote" out their natural rights, doesn't really mean [censored] in the big picture. Could you see a constitutional amendment repealing the "right" to speech or religion?

And to preempt your counter, the supreme court is made up of men and men make mistakes. Eminent domain and campaign finance rulings are the two most recent that bite my ass. As a country we can hope that wiser courts will prevail and these cases will be overturned (and thus made in line with natural law)

[TravestyFund]

I own 6 guns, but I live in Texas.