weird donk

[vmacosta]

I don't understand why you wouldn't post the pf stats.

Let's assume he is a typical 50/10/.7.Normally, it's really hard to put a guy like this on a hand. However, due to pf, you can rule out a ton of hands that would have a 2 or 4 in it. I'd put him at around {A2-A5, AQ+, 33, 66-QQ, KQ, 54s, 43s, K4s}.

So even if you do a proper discounting of the worse hands you should def raise here.

At the table I would raise lightning quick; I'm pretty surprised you all don't--maybe I'm missing something.

[NinaWilliams]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't understand why you wouldn't post the pf stats.


[/ QUOTE ]

I didnt have them yet. Ive seen him limp almost every hand and he showed down an open limped J6s from the HJ. I also saw him bluff flop, check turn, then bluff again on the river.

[vmacosta]

All,

"Ive seen him limp almost every hand and he showed down an open limped J6s from the HJ. I also saw him bluff flop, check turn, then bluff again on the river."


This is the only read we have on the villain. How are ppl all of a sudden experts on what he'll turn up with here?

If you don't see b/c with retardo hands by bad players in your games, that's fine, but please don't tell me 5x,99, or AK aren't in his range.

Granted they are weighted differently, so if anybody has gone through their PT db and picked out the erratic LP fish and examined their river donks and decided it's always with a monster, I'd love to see the data. Hasn't been my limited experience though.

To be fair, I have no problem if ppl say, "it's close but I lean towards calling" or "not sure about the read, but the player-type I have in mind doesn't donk mediocre hands in this spot too often". But the "easy,easy call" type posts are really starting to get on my nerves.

[rzk]

[ QUOTE ]


So even if you do a proper discounting of the worse hands you should def raise here.

At the table I would raise lightning quick; I'm pretty surprised you all don't--maybe I'm missing something.

[/ QUOTE ]

thank god i'm not crazy [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[sweetjazz]

Do any of the river raisers advocate calling a 3bet? For those that don't advocate calling the 3-bet, how often do you actually fold to 3bets in such spots at the table?

This is more curiousity on my part than anything else.

[rzk]

[ QUOTE ]
Do any of the river raisers advocate calling a 3bet? For those that don't advocate calling the 3-bet, how often do you actually fold to 3bets in such spots at the table?


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all the time. that's not to say i think it's necessarily correct. but if we have a close call/fold decision that doesn't mean we shouldn't raise in the first place.

[milesdyson]

but

do you really think it is close call/fold though

[rzk]

if i instaraise and he still 3bets, no, i don't think it's close.

if i take my sweet time to raise and he 3bets, i start scratching my head.

what do others think?

[milesdyson]

i think waiting maybe makes a 1% difference overall in terms of how often you're good

[TheHip41]

[ QUOTE ]
if i instaraise and he still 3bets, no, i don't think it's close.

if i take my sweet time to raise and he 3bets, i start scratching my head.

what do others think?

[/ QUOTE ]


i still think raise folding JJ on a 54422 board to someone who sucks at poker can't be a valid line here.

If you do raise this river, it's because you can confidently call a 3bet.

This guy can have a 4 here, he can have a slow played better hand, but the hands you are getting value from are A=x

I just think there aren't enough bet/calling hands for the villain here.