Weighty issue I feel powerless to handle (Longest Post Ever OMG)

[uclaben]

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Meanwhile, Dad still never loved Mom, and as little "May" was growing up, he saw in her face the face of his shrewish wife, and got depressed. He hated America. He didn't love his wife or daughter. He only loved his sons and the ex-wife who left him when he was sent to prison... and she was back in China. He yearned to go back to China but his sense of duty to his second family kept him in L.A. where he keeps to himself and barely speaks to his daughter for fear of having to face a younger version of his wife (however, if he only really got to know May, he'd see she's only like her mother in physical features; not in personality).

That leaves May, almost 30 years younger than her brother, over 50 years younger than her father, and the same age as her own niece, whom she refers to as her cousin because of the age similarity. She has nothing in common with her zealot Catholic mother, has virtually no relationship with her father, yet has basically resigned herself to the fact that these are the parents she is stuck with, and will honor and obey them until they die, no matter what kind of people they are. Because, I guess, beggars can't be choosers.

So -- does Dad believe in happy marriages? Yes, he had one, but war and imprisonment ruined it. Is he happy now? No. Does Mom believe in happy marriages? No -- she's never been loved by any man; so love is a luxury most people can't afford. To want it is to be selfish and flighty. The most you can ask for is to be taken care of financially. And you'd better like it.

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Something doesn't add up here.

A person who grew up in this type of family situation would be a huge longshot to avoid serious trauma of one sort or another. That leaves three possibilities, in my eyes:

1) She is currently dealing with severe trauma
2) She hit her two-outer and somehow avoided it, growing up as a normal, happy, American child
3) She didn't really grow up attached to these parents

The way you describe the situation seems to point to #2. #3 doesn't seem possible, since she apparently has a deeply rooted sense of devotion to her parents. If I'm analyzing this correctly and #2 is in fact true, can you explain why it is you think she was able to avoid serious personality problems, given her unstable family life?

I'm not just trying to play amateur shrink - I think this is really important to this relationship.

[MicroBob]

Oh c'mon.
Lots of kids turn out semi-mostly-normal even with f'ed up parents.
It's not THAT incredible imo.

Kids fight with parents. Parents don't get along and act like they wish they never got married.
For some families, it happens. And it's not nearly as severe or damaging as the kids being beaten or molested or something.

My parents don't hate each other. still talk on friendly terms actually.
but they did finally get divorced when I was 31 or so which I had felt should have happened about 20 yrs earlier.
Not that I'm the most normal dude in the world either. But I think I turned out mostly okay.


Also - feliz slim hit it on the head. Buy the girl a damn coffee-maker for your place. Making her drink instant or in the little folgers bags or whatever is just wrong.
Real coffee FTW!!!

[uclaben]

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Oh c'mon.
Lots of kids turn out semi-mostly-normal even with f'ed up parents.
It's not THAT incredible imo.

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Her dad thinks of her as an image of his "shrewish wife," and her mom doesn't believe in love for anyone, lol. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it is highly unlikely that someone would get out of that childhood without some fairly deep emotional scars. But if PJ says she doesn't, I'm not doubting that - I'm just wondering what character traits she possesses that let her escape that tough situation relatively unscathed.

[Hellmouth]

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I like your idea of living with her first, but that will be an in the face disrespect to her mother and her Catholic beliefs, so be careful.

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FWIW, she did live with her last boyfriend for 3 years, and I guess the fact that her mom didn't disown her for that means that she's probably somewhat forgiving in the living-in-sin department (or maybe she wasn't forgiving; I haven't probed into the dynamic between her mom and her ex). But that guy was Chinese.

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All the more evidence that this is a Chinese thing way more than a Catholic thing.

Call it a rant but I think that Catholics by there very nature are forced to live a life of hypocrisy. It is the only way to reconcile their beliefs (hundreds of years removed from the modern age) and reality. Tons of catholics have lived in sin, used birth control, gotten divorced and even had abortions but still consider themselves good catholics.

If living with you were to become an issue it might be brought up as a Catholic thing but it is most certainly going to be rooted in the fact that you are not Chinese.

Greg

[Jon1000]

I'd echo that this seems to be way more of a Chinese issue than a Catholic one, particularly the disconnect from the family and obligation conflicting with American notions of the individual right to freedom and love.

The father's imprisonment lends him a unique perspective. One that might possibly make him sympathetic to May's plight. Has he expressed any opinion about May's future? Perhaps May could enlist his aid in speaking with her mother.

I don't think May's mom sounds that far off from your above average high strung obsessive compulsive east asian mom (although it appears that south asian moms get down the same way). She's not going to like what May has to say, but if you can help May to start the dialogue or at least clearly outline what she needs to say to her mother, I think it will go a long way.

[jaydub]

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have you really only been together for a month? i didn't notice if that was answered in this thread.

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No, that was an assumption made by another poster who saw that my gf has been spending 3-4 nights/week at my place for the past month. Doesn't mean we've only been together for a month; that's just how long she's had her toothbrush, soap, hair products, earrings, cell phone charger, and instant coffee packets in my apartment.

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Nice dodge, so does this mean 2 months? 3 months? Also, not sure if you posted it before but how many serious relationships have you been in (as an adult) and how long did they last?


J

[olliejen]

Hi Joker,

I am chinese and:
1. No, not many arranged marriages anymore. As you mentioned yourself, this Boss-business came about after some perceived relationship failures.
2. Chinese society and families are different than Western ones. You need to know that if you continue this relationship, that in the back of May's mind, its with the intention of it ending up in marriage. That's pretty much standard w/ most gals across the board. However, the chinese part figures in, in that<ul type="square">[*]Chinese families expect you to stay married, pretty much no matter what. That's double-y true if she's got a very religious background and triple-y true if kids are involved. It's not fair, but Chinese people are very suspicious of the depth of marriage-commitment of Westerners. They feel like Westerners are too frivolous with the commitment aspect of marriage.[*]There'll always be pressure on her to prove that you were a right or good choice. Meaning, you might have to make some effort to overcome language barriers, look past/forgive unjustified prejudices, sacrificing your own free time to just be around during family get-togethers/events. And if she really is from a traditional family, her folks/family WILL be plenty present/involved in her life.[*]There'll be pressure with kids, as, in old-school Chinese thinking, it's a pretty much standard expectation/function in marriage. Plus she's not 20, she's 28.[/list]We are taught from an early age to obey our parents. Conversely our parents have a different set of societal expectations and by-and-large, are supposed to have our best interests at heart.

I may've missed it in your post, but aside from all the Boss/May's-mom craziness, have you talked to May herself at all about where things are going? If you guys have some similar goals/directions/timelines for your lives?

[XXXNoahXXX]

Have her contact the good people at Truth Ministry...

[shemp]

I haven't gotten very far in this thread. But since you mentioned that she's smokin hawt I just thought I'd ask: Does she have a sister?

Oh. And when you were counting outs, did you count any sort of backdoor flush/straight options as a full out?

[Off Duty]

Not every potential spouse can cut off thier family, even if it's in their best interests.

If she can handle that (Asian and Catholic doesn't bode well for the cut-bait gambit, but you never know) you can proceed.

Else, get ready for a future of hateful and spiteful inlaws.