AP thread 872.6 - Statement ITT

[RikaKazak]

[ QUOTE ]
Oh, and don't believe this BS about third-party software. This is a carefully crafted lie to make it appear that their normally-secure system was cracked by a techincally gifted insider with knowledge on how to do it.

That's not what happened.

A superuser account (most likely #363, perhaps others) was created a long time ago -- before AP even opened -- for testing purposes. Instead of disabling it like any responsible company would do, Scott Tom the meglomaniac decided he wanted it to remain open so he could have access to it. This account was eventually used during the scandal, and perhaps at other times beforehand. This was obviously the most blatant and high-profile usage of it, which led to the public discovering it.

This is the simplest explanation, and it's the one that both makes the most sense and corresponds properly with the evidence we have.

AJ Green is not a programmer. Scott Tom is not a programmer. I guarantee you that none of these frat boys are technically competent enough to compromise the system on their own -- even with insider knowledge. This was definitely done through the use of a simple interface that was designed a long time ago.

The reason AP is lying about this is because their current story rests the blame on the shoulders of one "consultant", rather than the entire management of AP for letting a superuser account exist on the system for over 3 years. It also allows them to continue to stand by their earlier repeated denials of a superuser account existing. This tall tale allows them to claim they never knew this sort of thing was possible.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT

This post is what is really happening imo....A+ work Dan Druff.

[Tuco]

[ QUOTE ]
Microbob,

I'm not sure when you left, but reading the first two posts of this thread will probably bring you up to date.

In brief: AJ Green is the (as yet unnamed) fall guy but probably also the culprit. Scott Tom was probably extremely negligent but maybe complicit. The AP statement has satisfied few.

[/ QUOTE ]

Two things:

First, I have talked to someone in the industry very familiar with AP and they said that Scott was running AP and always will. He was not in Panama. He was at all meetings around the time of the AP and UB merger as well.

Second, there was another incident at the WSOP in 2006. AP gave away a car lease for a year as a draw and it was rigged for a friend of the employee. They (the employee and the friend) sold the car back to the dealership and split the money. I don't know what happened to the employee.

Tuco.

[RikaKazak]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Some people will be willing to take the risk to play there.


[/ QUOTE ]
Could be.

Will be: Those same risk-takers will be back here in a year begging for someone (else) to plz gets my moinies back from the cheaters.... Please? KTHX.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is by no means a certainty, hence the term risk.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are seriously driving me insane toys...how much is AP paying you?

Throughout this whole thing I lost all respect I had for you.

[SlackerMcFly]

[ QUOTE ]
Whoever has the residual value of the place has a hundred million reasons to go ape [censored] to make it squeeky clean now.


[/ QUOTE ]
So Mr. Tatum and Mr. Tom (parents of Hilt and Scott) are the ones who Ultimately have the responsibility of cleaning up their son's messes? As original investors, it would seem that they have some obligations here (financially and otherwise) to do the right things.

But they aren't the ones in power now are they?

Oh, and I believe the operative word is HAD in relation to their potential worth. Probably going to be a lot less in coming months.

[Josem]

i think that you should lay off ikestoys - he is quite reasonably interested in pursuing the most possible money in the future.

he is clearly aware that absolute poker is far riskier than it was three or four months ago.

he is clearly aware that there is a decent chance of a "run" on absolute's cash reserves.

he is clearly aware of the chance of being cheated in the future.

he is clearly aware that there is a lot of downside in playing at absolute.


given that, he still thinks it is a good place to play. i'm not convinced that the skill level difference between the different sites is big enough to justify all this additional risk, but he believes it.

if you disagree with him, you're going to have to reconcile yourself to the fact that you're not likely to change his mind. that's certainly not the worst thing that's going to happen in any of our lives today.

[Michaelson]

[ QUOTE ]
I am too paranoid to keep much money at any gambling site, assuming they might steal it some day. So I'm not too worried about continuing to play at AP - if they steal my money, it's about ten days profits. Big deal. For others, the reward to risk might be different though. But I bet I can last at least ten more days there before all Hell Breaks Loose. So it's a positive ev deal for me to keep playing there, since my rate of winning is higher there than at other sites. Plus the place has a possible value of more than a hundred million dollars. Whoever has the residual value of the place has a hundred million reasons to go ape [censored] to make it appear squeeky clean now.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP.

This is a PR battle now, pure and simple, and one most people on the right side seem to have lost interest in fighting (which is entirely predictable: they don't have the resources or the incentives that AP does).

Of course AP may get their act together as a result of this matter, it would be the simplest way to address their image problems, but why anyone would be willing to give them the benefit of the doubt after learning of the extent of miscoduct so far is beyond me. Those who support AP by continuing to play there compound the problem of low consumer confidence in the integrity of online gaming, IMO. They also help demonstrate to other sites that it is possible to survive a scandal such as this.

Furthermore, for anyone who sticks with AP and is cheated again, what sort of support do you expect to receive from the community second time round? I hope that is factored into your risk analysis.

[NLfool]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Microbob,

I'm not sure when you left, but reading the first two posts of this thread will probably bring you up to date.

In brief: AJ Green is the (as yet unnamed) fall guy but probably also the culprit. Scott Tom was probably extremely negligent but maybe complicit. The AP statement has satisfied few.

[/ QUOTE ]

Two things:

First, I have talked to someone in the industry very familiar with AP and they said that Scott was running AP and always will. He was not in Panama. He was at all meetings around the time of the AP and UB merger as well.

Second, there was another incident at the WSOP in 2006. AP gave away a car lease for a year as a draw and it was rigged for a friend of the employee. They (the employee and the friend sold the car back to the dealership and split the money. I don't know what happened to the employee.

Tuco.

[/ QUOTE ]

WTF these scumbags should never be allowed to hold on to other people's money. I really can't imagine the 100 other ways they [censored] their players over. They probably skimmed way more off of the BBJ

[Josem]

h11,

your thinking there doesn't seem very strong.

1) 10 days profit is a significant amount of money for many people.

2) the consideration of whether it is the most +EV deal is based on this:

compare:
(expected profit playing at absolute) - (expected profit playing elsewhere)

to:
(chance your money is stolen)

if you're winning at 5big blinds/100, and the cheaters can take a stack off you by calling your otherwise well-timed big bluff, they only need to do it once every 2,000 hands to make you into a break-even player.


3) a large chunk of the "value" of AP is in the value of their brand. their brand is obviously worth less today than it was several weeks ago.

[waveydavey]

So you guys are crazier than the people on my non-poker forum! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] But even though 98% of this thread is hot air, I've read it all, (maybe because I'm at work, unsupervised and it's late).

I only picked up on this subject yesterday, and I'm a very low stakes player compared to all of you guys, so I'm not likely to fall foul of these kinds of cheaters. One thing puzzles me though, and that's the lack of reaction from the PPA, (at least from what I can tell).

I think it was Dan who suggested they should be actively pursuing this on behalf of its membership, to ensure integrity in the game, and someone else said that they were just a political lobbying force. Shouldn't they be doing it for both these reasons, the outcome having a common goal? I mean, why did online poker get banned in the US? Because the argument could be made that people would be loosing their houses, (that may not be the real reason, but that's the kind of arguments that were being made). If the PPA actively works for a positive outcome that would enhance the image of online poker, and show that it can be regulated, (if only through initial self-regulation), that cheaters will be suitably punished, and the players will be protected, won't that help the cause to get it accepted in the US? If they don't do anything then Congress will simply say to them next time around, "Well just look at Absolute Poker."

[ikestoys]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Some people will be willing to take the risk to play there.


[/ QUOTE ]
Could be.

Will be: Those same risk-takers will be back here in a year begging for someone (else) to plz gets my moinies back from the cheaters.... Please? KTHX.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is by no means a certainty, hence the term risk.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are seriously driving me insane toys...how much is AP paying you?

Throughout this whole thing I lost all respect I had for you.

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, I never really knew you, so no loss really imo. All I'm is telling the truth. Some players will go back to AP, even players who know all about the scandal. They'll go because they will believe their expectation is worth the risk. I probably won't be one of them, dependent on the final outcome, but I'm sure you know that, because you've read the whole thread and its obvious I'm getting paid by AP. Especially because I was one of the guys who helped along the investigation into NLHE cash.

Shooting the messenger is a way to express your anger at the truth, but its pretty weak imo, and I've lost respect for you.