5 Generals 6 Admirals on Climate Change: There will be wars over water

[Hume]

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It's the fact that theories ... are presented as facts that makes it a propaganda piece, among others things.

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Do you even know what a theory is?

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Better than you do, I'm sure.

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In science, a theory is a mathematical description, a logical explanation, a verified hypothesis, or a proven model of the manner of interaction of a set of natural phenomena, capable of predicting future occurrences or observations of the same kind, and capable of being tested through experiment or otherwise falsified through empirical observation. It follows from this that for scientists "theory" and "fact" do not necessarily stand in opposition. For example, it is a fact that an apple dropped on earth has been observed to fall towards the center of the planet, and the theory which explains why the apple behaves so is the current theory of gravitation.

link

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Yep. You might want to try reading that until you understand it and then read what I said again.

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Lol no.

[AlexM]

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Yeah, nice way to change the subject. Kudos.

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How am i changing the subject? The OP was about that report.

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No, the OP was about the article. The article was about the report.

[Zeno]

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I tried googling. Found a bunch of stuff about this rock and statues but couldn't find any specific wars about this rock. Do you have any more info? This is very interesting.

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Wacki,

I'm fairly certain that the information I gave in the post is from Will Durant's (Ariel also helped write these books) first book in his Story of Civilization Series (eleven volumes), titled Our Oriental Heritage Our Oriental Heritage . Check out some of the reviews.

This first volume is a great read and fundamental to understanding much about the development of civilization(s). My former spouse had this series of volumes so I no longer have access to them and can't readily confirm the above. It's possible I read about this little war somewhere else but I doubt it. That's about all the information I can give at this time. Hope it helps.

-Zeno

[matrix]

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Similarly with the diseases. Who the hell thinks that diseases are going to run rampant because of global warming?

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This is a no brainer.

Cities were founded in years gone by because of their location - in particular for some cities like Nairobi their location meant they were at a high enough altitude to be above the mosquito line (the height mosquitos would be found at in large numbers)

Global warming has moved this line higher up (Mosquitoes need a higher temperature to be able to live - it is warmer now so they can get higher)

BOOM - now places like Nairobi which never had a moaquito problem before have mosquitoes - which carry and spread disease - nasty diseaes like Malaria for example.

The climate is changing everywhere - natural cycles of growth are out of sync -- I saw a piece on local TV news yesterday about the "Maytree" (Hawthorn Bush) which got it's nickname because it always flowers in mid May. Here right now it's in full flower mid April.

If Trees are flowering sooner than normal regularly then insects that depend on the flowers reach higher population levels sooner in the year without their natural predators to keep their numbers in check - some of these insects will do serious damage to existing trees (see Pine Beetles)

If the climate that has been stable for thousands of years starts going crazy - like it is doing now the life cycles of lots of species will get messed up. Some of them will grow in numbers (insects that now have a longer season to live with less predators around) some of those insects carry disease - so diseases are going to increase a lot because of global warming - whether they run "rampant" or not depends on your definition of rampant.

[Felix_Nietzsche]

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If the climate that has been stable for thousands of years starts going crazy - like it is doing now the life cycles of lots of species will get messed up. Some of them will grow in numbers (insects that now have a longer season to live with less predators around) some of those insects carry disease - so diseases are going to increase a lot because of global warming - whether they run "rampant" or not depends on your definition of rampant.

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Stable for thousands of years? What planet have you been living on? The planet's climate has NEVER been stable. It always changes....
10,000 years ago Wisconson was covered with a mile of ice. The glacier sheet extended over almost all of North America. So how did the ice age end 10,000 years ago? Did autos and cement factories cause the world to warm? Of course not. Man is an insect compared to the power of nature. It is the height of arrogance for man to claim to have the power to warm the earth. It reminds me of a primitive witch doctor in Africa that utters incantations believing he can bring rain. The only difference between the primitive witch doctor and a 'climatologist' is the witch doctor is more honest and is not corrupted by research money....

Global warming is good....
Global cooling will result in the deaths of BILLIONS of people. Another ice age will come....like they always do. And none of these nitwit global warming 'scientists' can do anything to stop the next ice age.

[matrix]

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10,000 years ago Wisconson was covered with a mile of ice. The glacier sheet extended over almost all of North America. So how did the ice age end 10,000 years ago? Did autos and cement factories cause the world to warm? Of course not.

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And when the last ice age finished North America was a giant lake of Fresh meltwater - that meltwater got dumped into the Atlantic which nixed the Gulfstream and plunged Europe into a 1000 year iceage.

Once that finished the climate fell into the same relatively stable pattern that it was in till very recently.

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Man is an insect compared to the power of nature. It is the height of arrogance for man to claim to have the power to warm the earth. It reminds me of a primitive witch doctor in Africa that utters incantations believing he can bring rain. The only difference between the primitive witch doctor and a 'climatologist' is the witch doctor is more honest and is not corrupted by research money....

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I agree that man is an insect compared to nature.

It is the height of blinkerdness imo to claim that man is NOT heating up hte planet. The Science published in peer reviewed papers is conclusive. We are heating up the world we live on because we have forgotten how to live in harmony with the planet. CO2 levels are SOARING compared to even 40 years ago and thy continue to climb. The average temperature is increasing - this is an undisputed fact. Why is it so hard to connect CO2 and temperature?

As the average temperature increases world wide the temperature at the poles increases most of all. Antarctica is disintegrating before our eyes - very similar conditions as those observed on ice shelves (surface pools of meltwater that form moulins) are being observed now in the middle of Greenland.
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Global warming is good....
Global cooling will result in the deaths of BILLIONS of people. Another ice age will come....like they always do. And none of these nitwit global warming 'scientists' can do anything to stop the next ice age.

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Personally I'd rather not be here when Greenland/Antarctica collapses enough to raise the sea level far enough to sink Manhattan. When global warming kills BILLIONS of people it will also completely destroy (in all likelyhood) our civilisation. This has happened before obviously and is more than likely going to happen again - a new Ice age WILL come eventually - the sun will explode eventually.

I just happen to be of the opinion that I'd rather us humans didn't have more of an effect on the environment than we need to and that just maybe it might be wise to leave some kind of planet behind for the kids who are going to have to suffer through all of this [censored] we have helped create.

[Bremen]

No offense but it sounds like you just watched "An Inconvenient Truth" :0)

But really "kill billions of people"? Its not like ocean levels would rise overnight. People would have plenty of time to relocate. It would be rather annoying for billions of people to be forcibly relocated from their homes, but it would hardly kill them outright. Perhaps drought/floods would have that effect, but we can't say with any certainty what exactly weather patterns will look like. Besides those things happen already...

[matrix]

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But really "kill billions of people"? Its not like ocean levels would rise overnight. People would have plenty of time to relocate. It would be rather annoying for billions of people to be forcibly relocated from their homes, but it would hardly kill them outright. Perhaps drought/floods would have that effect, but we can't say with any certainty what exactly weather patterns will look like. Besides those things happen already...

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Where in the world do you think the most fertile land for growing crops is?

Could it possibly be next to the coast? If sea levels rise significantly enough worldwide it will displace millions of people - not quite so bad for developed countries - but look at how long it took the US to effectively respond to Hurricane Katrina. How many more times worse off are people in India and Bangladesh going to be when the developed world has enough of a headache trying to help it's own citizens and can't spring into some kind of relief effort.

Once all the displaced people have been sheltered how are we going to feed everyone if x% of the planets food producing land is flooded ? A lot of food consumed by Europe is grown in Holland. Most of Holland is built on reclaimed land very very close to the sea level.

[AlexM]

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But really "kill billions of people"? Its not like ocean levels would rise overnight. People would have plenty of time to relocate. It would be rather annoying for billions of people to be forcibly relocated from their homes, but it would hardly kill them outright. Perhaps drought/floods would have that effect, but we can't say with any certainty what exactly weather patterns will look like. Besides those things happen already...

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Where in the world do you think the most fertile land for growing crops is?

Could it possibly be next to the coast?

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Nope. Next to rivers. Dunno about the UK, but most of the coast over here is either homes or beaches. The food all gets grown inland. I've never even heard of a seaside farm.

[slickss]

It is interesting that they argue that the future water shortage validates increased spending on national security.

I, for one, think it would be better to save a few trillion dollars on wars and national security, and instead spend it on environmental research and decreasing CO2 emissions. If Bush had focused as much on the environment as he has on Iraq, I think the forecast could be very different.