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#31
04-17-2007, 02:16 PM
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Re: 5 Generals 6 Admirals on Climate Change: There will be wars over w
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[ QUOTE ] "The report says that in the next 30 to 40 years there will be wars over water, increased hunger instability from worsening disease" Huh? Why would there be a water shortage. Not only have I never heard of any kind of consensus belief of a water shortage, but considering the advances in desalinization technology, it's patently absurd. [/ QUOTE ] AlexM - I suspect you don't know very much about desalinization. Why do so people choose to stick their heads in the sand over this issue. Nothing to see here, everything is okay. It's because they want their little world, which they attempt to model after an NBC sitcom to remain unaltered. [/ QUOTE ] Yep, asking for evidence instead of propaganda is sticking one's head in the sand. All I want it people to provide me with facts. Is global warming really going to affect the world's water supply and are advances in desalinization not likely to be effective? Fine, I'm ready to believe it, but you have to provide evidence. Did I ever say "nothing to see here, everything is ok?" No! I don't know if everything is ok or not because every time I ask for facts on the subject, the people on both sides of the issue instead shower me with propaganda. Then, when I point this out, they get all flustered and start insulting me instead... like your post. 
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#33
04-17-2007, 06:29 PM
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Re: 5 Generals 6 Admirals on Climate Change: There will be wars over w
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[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] It's the fact that theories ... are presented as facts that makes it a propaganda piece, among others things. [/ QUOTE ] Do you even know what a theory is? [/ QUOTE ] Better than you do, I'm sure. [/ QUOTE ] In science, a theory is a mathematical description, a logical explanation, a verified hypothesis, or a proven model of the manner of interaction of a set of natural phenomena, capable of predicting future occurrences or observations of the same kind, and capable of being tested through experiment or otherwise falsified through empirical observation. It follows from this that for scientists "theory" and "fact" do not necessarily stand in opposition. For example, it is a fact that an apple dropped on earth has been observed to fall towards the center of the planet, and the theory which explains why the apple behaves so is the current theory of gravitation. link
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#34
04-17-2007, 07:21 PM
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Re: 5 Generals 6 Admirals on Climate Change: There will be wars over w
The premise of a war over water is hardly original, putting it in global warming clothing is. There have been predictions about wars over water for a long time. In fact, if you looked at it in a certain way, there already is a war over water going on, as many aspects of the Arab-Israeli conflict are not religious in nature, but rather over water.
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#35
04-17-2007, 07:27 PM
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Re: 5 Generals 6 Admirals on Climate Change: There will be wars over w
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[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] It's the fact that theories ... are presented as facts that makes it a propaganda piece, among others things. [/ QUOTE ] Do you even know what a theory is? [/ QUOTE ] Better than you do, I'm sure. [/ QUOTE ] In science, a theory is a mathematical description, a logical explanation, a verified hypothesis, or a proven model of the manner of interaction of a set of natural phenomena, capable of predicting future occurrences or observations of the same kind, and capable of being tested through experiment or otherwise falsified through empirical observation. It follows from this that for scientists "theory" and "fact" do not necessarily stand in opposition. For example, it is a fact that an apple dropped on earth has been observed to fall towards the center of the planet, and the theory which explains why the apple behaves so is the current theory of gravitation. link [/ QUOTE ] Yep. You might want to try reading that until you understand it and then read what I said again.
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#36
04-17-2007, 07:51 PM
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Re: 5 Generals 6 Admirals on Climate Change: There will be wars over w
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It's propaganda pieces like this that make me skeptical of global warming in the first place. [/ QUOTE ] BS. [ QUOTE ] If not for this kind of crap, I'd be right on the bandwagon. [/ QUOTE ] Also BS. q/q
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#37
04-17-2007, 08:49 PM
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Re: Why Should I Care About Their Opinions?
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Yeah, nice way to change the subject. Kudos. [/ QUOTE ] How am i changing the subject? The OP was about that report. You said you were open and willing to consider global warming theories if they weren't so propaganda-laden. I asked what your specific objections were. You gave me objections to CNN's reporting, not the theories laid out in the actual report. I don't particularly care about what you think of the MSM, I'm simply trying to understand what you mean when you say you are open to thinking about global warming except the propaganda-tactics turn you off to thinking about it.
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#38
04-18-2007, 01:35 AM
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Re: 5 Generals 6 Admirals on Climate Change: There will be wars over w
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[ QUOTE ] WASHINGTON (AP) -- Global warming poses a "serious threat to America's national security" and the U.S. likely will be dragged into fights over water and other shortages, top retired military leaders warn in a new report. [/ QUOTE ] If you stop and reflect this general concept is nothing new, surprising, or even that thought provoking. Humanity has been fighting over resources, arable land, trade and sea routes, strategic access points, and a host of perceived or real precious commodities for millennium. The general concept is age old. I recall reading about the first ever recorded war in Will Durant's Story of Civilization - it was over rocks, diorite if I recall correctly, that a specific brigand King wished to use to make statues of himself with and that diorite just happened to be in someone else's sphere of ownership. Thus a war commenced to acquire that which the King needed to sanctify and preserved for posterity his glory, greed, pride, and ego, all acquired by spilling other peoples blood. Anyway, I care little about any of this. I’m more concerned about the price of my GE stock and the money to be made from the future apocalypse. Go global warming, and if humanity finally exterminates itself and I can make a profit before the curtain falls that is just Icing on the Cake for me. And one more thing, everyone better start arming up for the big rumble. You don't want to be left out of all the fun. Le Misanthrope [/ QUOTE ] I tried googling. Found a bunch of stuff about this rock and statues but couldn't find any specific wars about this rock. Do you have any more info? This is very interesting.
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#39
04-18-2007, 01:48 AM
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Re: 5 Generals 6 Admirals on Climate Change: There will be wars over w
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How would low carbon/alternative/sustainable energy start a war. [/ QUOTE ] Skyrocketing food prices as food and arable land are diverted to biofuels, for starters. This is already happening; the poor in Mexico are being pinched in the tortilla budget as corn is diverted to ethanol production. I believe there has already been some rioting, but I'm not positive.
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#40
04-18-2007, 01:52 AM
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Re: 5 Generals 6 Admirals on Climate Change: There will be wars over water
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I wonder what scams the nay sayers will be accusing these retired military officers of. [/ QUOTE ] Military officers find excuse to pimp for increasing military budgets in preparation for imminent danger from <insert threat here>. Shocking. What do you want to bet these retired officers are paid consultants for/lobbyists for/employees of/heavily invested in the military industrial complex?
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