donk in EP with strong draw, on turn ?

maverickai · #1 11-30-2007, 11:19 PM

PokerStars 0.05/0.10 Hold'em (9 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, HERO calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, 1 fold, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (7 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (7 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets, HERO calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, SB folds, BB folds.

Turn: (6 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
UTG checks, HERO ??

I was worried the rest of the field will check throughout and I'll be missing a lot of value if there are no bets on the turn. I have a flush cum gut shot draw, and I figure to have 12 outs. If I donk and someone raises behind me, I'm still getting enuff pot odds to see the river.

Harv72b · #2 11-30-2007, 11:21 PM

The turn is getting checked through never. Check & see, leaning towards a c/r for value depending on where the bet comes from.

TimovieMan · #3 11-30-2007, 11:27 PM

I'd donk, and hope everyone calls and UTG check-raises... [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Smurph64 · #4 12-01-2007, 02:44 AM

Not I. Building a pot on the turn when you need 1 of 4 to break even if your draw is even good is not something I generally suggest. Being you have a shot at the nuts however and being 4th to act in a pot already a decent size I might consider reraising the flop.

UTG frequently raises light in these situations. The two blinds passed on a draw heavy flop so they are setting up a check/raise or are out of the hand.

The two after limped because their ranges probably gave them lots of shots considering the odds they had to call.

Facing two bets means that weak bd draws and overcards can be tossed. As well a raise here protects your flush draw value if the board pairs as a K or Q high flush draw may fold if the aggression continues on a missed turn.

(ie they are now sandwiched between flop lead and reraiser and don't want to face two coming back to them if flop lead check/raises the turn)

Q 10 may fold if they don't hold a club if they face two so it protects your non club 8 draw a bit.

All in all the options afforded to you, not to mention the small possibility of winning or stealing the pot without a showdown make the sb reraise a better move than reraising the turn.

maverickai · #5 12-01-2007, 04:31 AM

My whole intention of only calling the flop is that the pot is not considered big (4BB) and I do not want to blow players acting behind out of the pot.

[ QUOTE ]
Q 10 may fold if they don't hold a club if they face two so it protects your non club 8 draw a bit.

[/ QUOTE ]

And I doubt a villian holding QT will fold in this games, even if I raise.

Harv72, what you think of raising the flop donker?

Harv72b · #6 12-01-2007, 04:44 AM

If I thought that two or more of the players behind me were likely to call two cold with any piece of the board or with weaker draws, I'd love raising the flop donk. But barring that kind of information, I'm with you--go for overcalls on the flop.

Incidentally, I doubt QT is folding the flop in any game, whether we raise or not. QT might, however, raise behind us & allow us to pull the ol' call/reraise line.

Smurph64 · #7 12-01-2007, 06:33 AM

If the board pairs and I have reraised the flop not too many straight and flush holdings are playing through. They may call but you get to see the river if need be rather inexpensively and will not be overly punished if you are outdrawn.

I hate justifying plays that are acceptable strictly because your opponents are probably brain dead.

If you had a stronger draw then the turn raise makes sense but 12 outs is an extremely generous estimation.

If the eight of clubs hits on the river your turn raise will also kill any chance of action unless they hold the nut flush.

The turn has no scare card value therefore a donk from a passed lead is just setting yourself up for all kinds of trouble.

There are definite times when raising for value with a draw is correct, I just don't agree that this is one of those times on the turn.

Fadook · #8 12-01-2007, 07:35 AM

Everyone's limping here preflop? This is a fold for me. I want a few players in behind me to play this hand.

neurotiq · #9 12-01-2007, 08:00 AM

I don't really like playing small suited connectors in early position. I'd just fold it preflop.

Check the turn.

Riku · #10 12-01-2007, 02:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't really like playing small suited connectors in early position. I'd just fold it preflop.

Check the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]