3bet or call this reiver?

CasaJJ · #1 10-30-2007, 09:58 AM

I was relatively new to this table and had no solid reads on anyone.

Do you call the river raise or 3 bet? What do you do if he caps?

Any comments on my play earlier in the hand?

Full Tilt 2/4 Hold'em (6 handed) Full Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] , 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] .
[color=#CC3333]UTG raises, [color=#666666]1 fold, CO calls, [color=#666666]1 fold, SB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (8 SB) T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] , J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] , 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] [color=#0000FF](4 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks, [color=#CC3333]CO bets, SB calls, [color=#CC3333]Hero raises, UTG calls, CO calls, SB calls.

Turn: (8 BB) 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] [color=#0000FF](4 players)
SB checks, [color=#CC3333]Hero bets, UTG calls, CO folds, SB folds.

River: (10 BB) 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] [color=#0000FF](2 players)
[color=#CC3333]Hero bets, [color=#CC3333]UTG raises, Hero ?.

mvoss · #2 10-30-2007, 10:16 AM

Preview your posts please.

The river is an easy call imo.

shane88888 · #3 10-30-2007, 10:19 AM

Raise. UTG raised PF. He shouldn't have Q9 and the rake is probably capped.

For this to be profitable, you need to be called by a worse hand more than twice as often as you get capped by Q9. Though this is a chop an overwhelming majority of the time, I think it's a stupid bluff-raise often enough to three-bang. You played your hand very fast; your straight draw is partly disguised.

You can't fold to a cap.

FYI, you need to select 2+2 forums output on the converter.

mvoss · #4 10-30-2007, 10:25 AM

shane, 3-betting a bluff raise has no value.

CasaJJ · #5 10-30-2007, 10:56 AM

Sorry about the messed up post. I'll check and see what I did wrong on the converter for next time.

Shane, mvoss, your difference in opinion is exactly why I posted this hand.

My initial instinct was to simply call the raise, but when I gave more thought to Villain's hand I decided that a raise was best.

I didn't think he would be raising UTG with Q9. 9X is probably the most likely hand he'd be raising with so we're probably chopping. But, raising did make sense to me because he could have raised me with two pair or a set as a semi bluff.

I realize that the chance of him laying it down slim, but it still seems greater than him having Q9. Since the rake is capped by now, is it really a bad thing to raise? If so, why?

Thanks for the input.

shane88888 · #6 10-30-2007, 11:02 AM

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shane, 3-betting a bluff raise has no value.

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Only if you don't get called, and I'm still consistently amazed at the calls I get.

shane88888 · #7 10-30-2007, 11:10 AM

[ QUOTE ]
But, raising did make sense to me because he could have raised me with two pair or a set as a semi bluff.

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I have seen people play sets like this, and weak players never fold sets on the river. A bad player wouldn't raise the turn here for fear of losing the two remaining customers. This villain isn't necessarily weak, but his line thus far is curious.

We've all seen this. The "ZOMG I have a set - MUST SLOWPLAY. Can't raise the turn - it's four ways. Look at the river - I'm probably beat. MUST RAISE ANYWAY. I HAVE A SET."

Two other factors: our hand is somewhat disguised since we played it hard and the villain doesn't have a read on us either - a strong reason why we'll get a crying call.

inferno · #8 10-30-2007, 04:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Preview your posts please.

The river is an easy call imo.

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