elindauer is in the well

[mwette]

What is a range calculator?

[KitCloudkicker]

well, i should say (if you're still building it) - how will you go about using it in your games?

[elindauer]

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E.-

was just wondering - what inspired you to make a range calculator

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I was doing these analyses by hand... breaking down ranges and counting the number of combinations that made 1 pair, 2 pair, draws, etc.

I found that it was a rather painful process to do by hand, but there seemed to find a lot of useful information whenever I did it. So I wrote a program to do it for me. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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how did you go about making it,

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When I'm not playing poker, I'm a software developer, so writing the code was pretty easy. I used Java / servlets with Tomcat for the backend (JPOX / JDO for database access).

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and how do you use it at your games?

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It's kind of like pokerstove... it's too slow to use the tool while you play. You use it by breaking down ranges and thinking about hands, with the hope that it will start to sink in, you'll see trends, and you'll take bits of the analysis with you to your games, bit by bit.

The basic goal is to have a clearer picture of both my own range and my opponent's as I'm playing.

Even though that software isn't free, I plan to make a number of hand breakdowns available to the 2+2 community for free (a process I've already started), so everyone can benefit without needing to buy anything.

[elindauer]

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What is a range calculator?

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It's just a tool for breaking down hand ranges on particular boards. A common situation goes like this:

button raises, you call in the big blind. Flop is Ac 7c 3c. What % of the button's range has flopped a pair? What % is a flush draw? What % has totally missed?

With that information you might determine, for example, is this a good board for a donk bluff?

That kind of thing.

Sadly, the tool I wrote to do this isn't free, but you can benefit from it by reading my posts, like in this thread.

By the way, the answer to the question of donking the Ac 7c 3c flop is that, yes, it's an excellent board to bluff. A typical button steal range has
missed this board over 30% of the time (no pair no draw).

Since you're getting 4.5:1 to bluff, he only needs to fold 18% of the time (highlighted at bottom) for your bet to break-even. This is an excellent spot to donk-bluff.

good luck.
Eric

[jesse8888]

Have you ever thought about writing a bot to play low limit Omaha 8? I have the beginnings (and well, maybe the middles) of one, and to be honest, I can't imagine not being able to crush that game with about 40 rules.

Not that I'd ever want to unleash a bot....Writing it is the fun part [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[elindauer]

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Have you ever thought about writing a bot to play low limit Omaha 8?

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I've written hold'em and 2-7 triple draw bots that are, IMO, pretty good. Haven't put anything "into the wild".

[Allday Everyday]

Hi elindauer. Thanks for going into The Well. I am enjoying your responses and I have some questions if you don't mind.

How often do you currently play poker?

What are some of the biggest BB downswings you have had at a couple limits? How did you feel about them?

What winrate do you believe is possible for middle and small stakes online games today?

Who do you think is the best LHE player you have played?

WITHEG recommends default open-raising from the button with a certain 41% of hands (22+, A2s+, A3o+, K2s+, K9o+, Q5s+, Q9o+, J7s+, J9o+, T8s+, T8o+, 97s+, 98o+, 86s+, 75s+, 65s+) in full to 3 handed games. What do you think of this?

You are in the BB against unknowns. Button open steals, and SB calls. What do you think is a good range for calling here?

What did you have here? And how did you know I flopped top pair?? 3 handed. Button folds, You open from SB. I defend in BB. Flop K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. You check, I bet, you fold.

What do you believe are the best poker books ever written? Which helped your game the most? Have you read Mathematics of Poker? If so, what did you think of it? Did it improve your game?

If you could be any other person in the world, who would it be?

[elindauer]

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How often do you currently play poker?

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Right now just as a hobby. I don't keep track but perhaps five hours / week of actual play.

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What are some of the biggest BB downswings you have had at a couple limits? How did you feel about them?

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My worst slide ever was in the 300-350 big bet range, at a mix of 15/30 and 30/60 games to start 2006 (down $15k total).

I was fortunate to go a really long time without any serious downswings, and by the time I hit one, I knew enough about the game to know that, well, variance is a bitch. It was a frustrating time, but I kept talking myself down from the ledge so-to-speak, tried my best to avoid feeling frustrated and most importantly, tried my best to play the way I knew was right even though every move seemed to be wrong.

I happened to run incredibly well right after this slide, so the pain was mercifully short-lived.

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What winrate do you believe is possible for middle and small stakes online games today?

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I don't think anybody is particularly close to consistently exploiting all their opponents optimally. I'd guess that in the current environment, four big bets is definitely doable, and five might be possible. Yeah, I'm mostly pulling this out of my ass, but I'm basing on a bit of fact, and that fact is this: I think I'm a pretty good player, and I am good enough to know that there is still an ocean of information about limit hold'em that I don't know.

Realistically, 3 big bets for a hard-working, great player.

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Who do you think is the best LHE player you have played?

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Interesting question. It's hard for me to answer because the games I played had so much turn-over, and further, when I really played seriously I was multi-tabling and didn't spend a lot of time watching players. The few I did watch tended to be the loose bad ones, as they are the ones playing all the pots. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I can describe a difficult player type though... I struggle against short-handed players who fearlessly raise with marginal made hands on all streets, who don't release easily, and who don't bluff a lot. I'm talking about those guys that 3-bet top pair weak kicker, 3-bet weak aces preflop, etc. I was actually playing heads up against a guy at UB in a small stakes game named "CobraCommanda" or something like that who plays this way. Very tough opponent for me. It's really easy to get frustrated by the constant raising by either a) getting passive, or b) constantly trying to resteal. Both are recipes for disaster IMO.

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WITHEG recommends default open-raising from the button with a certain 41% of hands (22+, A2s+, A3o+, K2s+, K9o+, Q5s+, Q9o+, J7s+, J9o+, T8s+, T8o+, 97s+, 98o+, 86s+, 75s+, 65s+) in full to 3 handed games. What do you think of this?

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I was surprised to see a recommendation this wide, but have since done a fair bit of range analysis using this group. I find that it breaks down very well in all kinds of situations, and have adopted it myself. My results with this range have been excellent.

I think it's important to understand the adjustments you have to make when playing a wide range though. A full ring nit raising all these hands on the button will likely be exploitably tight postflop.

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You are in the BB against unknowns. Button open steals, and SB calls. What do you think is a good range for calling here?

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I definitely don't know the answer. I play a fairly wide range, something like:

any ace, any suited king, KTo+, Q7s+, QTo+, J8s+, J9o+, T7s+, T9o, 96s+, 98o, 85s+, 87o, 75s+, 76o, 64s+, 54s

I don't stick to any range religiously here though, I play it based on feel. If the button stealer steals a lot, I call the range above. If the button stealer is tight (meaning too tight for short-handed, and probably the fish), then I can fold a huge part of this range, dumping all the offsuit connectors, and calling only with the suited-remotely-connected kings, two-parts-of-broadway, and suited connectors. I'd also fold the weak offsuit aces, calling with maybe A7o and better.

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What did you have here? And how did you know I flopped top pair?? 3 handed. Button folds, You open from SB. I defend in BB. Flop K , T , 2 . You check, I bet, you fold.

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I held something at the very bottom of my stealing range. I remember thinking that you had played back at me a lot and were not folding much in blind battles. I think you folded preflop enough that I felt my fold equity + hit-the-flop-and-get-paid equity was worth a steal with a weak hand.

I would certainly make plenty of continuation bets, but I felt that at that moment, on this drawy board, you weren't folding often enough to justify a bet with no-hand-no-draw at that time. It was just luck that you happened to flop well.

That, and I can see your cards based on the software I installed on your machine. :P

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What do you believe are the best poker books ever written?

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I have really enjoyed what I've read of WITHEG so far. Tackling blind attack and defense ranges is very hard, but very helpful from a real world point-of-view. It's an absolutely critical skill to move up in limits.

HEFAP taught me to play, and I never lost after memorizing the opening charts. I thought it was god's gift to poker for a long time, and still think that it contains a ton of fantastic advice that was way ahead of it's time.

The Theory of Poker breaks down a lot of fundamental concepts in a way that I found very useful and helpful for all games.

Yeah, that about sums it up.

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Have you read Mathematics of Poker? If so, what did you think of it? Did it improve your game?

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I have read it. It's very interesting, and got me thinking about how to play entire ranges in a non-exploitable fashion. It made the analysis of these situations seem a bit more accessible then I had previously thought it to be, which helped motivate me to dive into the subject.

As a real-world poker text, I don't think it's helpful though. The situations it examines are pretty contrived, I don't think it improved my game directly. I suspect there are very few players who would benefit from simply reading it and then playing. No limit players willing to think actively while they read might be able to pick some important concepts. Limit players who don't have a love of mathematics probably should skip it.

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If you could be any other person in the world, who would it be?

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The problem with changing spots with a person is that it's very difficult to know how happy they are. Tiger Woods? Sure seems to have a great life. But then again, he's constantly scowling. Maybe his life of constantly-struggling-to-attain-the-unattainable is in fact filled with frustration and pain. Maybe he cries himself to sleep every night thinking about all those chips that lipped out during his practice session. Who knows?

There's a ton of evidence to suggest that above the poverty line, increasing wealth != increasing happiness. With that in mind, changing places with a rich / famous person would be too risky for me. I'd have to take the chance that they don't appreciate what they have. I think I'm lucky to have a generally very peaceful and contented outlook on the world and my place in it. I'd have a hard time risking that.

I suppose if I had to chance it though, I'd trade places with the Dalai Lama.

[mwette]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What is a range calculator?

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It's just a tool for breaking down hand ranges on particular boards. A common situation goes like this:

button raises, you call in the big blind. Flop is Ac 7c 3c. What % of the button's range has flopped a pair? What % is a flush draw? What % has totally missed?



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Thanks for the info. Sounds like fun stuff.

I have started work on something similar, maybe more akin to pokerstove. I coded in C and on 64bit OS to make it efficient. [Also allows use of random samples.] It was fun to make an efficient hand evaluator. I have started to apply it to generate distributions of winning hands starting from given pocket cards and number of opponents in the hand.

[elindauer]

Sounds like it could be a pretty useful tool. Good luck!