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#31
11-23-2007, 01:35 AM
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Re: [150NL] 88 Flopped set 550bb\'s Deep
This is so sick given description of villian. On your first raise on the turn did he tank for long? I agree with the people who said you shouldn't raise the turn if you don't want to play for stacks. As played I still think you have to fold to the 3-bet on the turn. This is the problem - it's so hard not to automatically be wanting to play for stacks with a set here on this board. I don't have much experience playing this deep - I'm not sure what the correct line is here at all. Calling on the turn and then just calling on the river seems ridiculous with your hand. Calling on the turn and then if he checks value-bet the river for AK is another option - I mean calling after his initial turn bet without raising. Nothing seems particularly attractive.
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#32
11-23-2007, 01:40 AM
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Re: [150NL] 88 Flopped set 550bb\'s Deep
[ QUOTE ]
I agree with the people who said you shouldn't raise the turn if you don't want to play for stacks. [/ QUOTE ] I don't really think this is true at all. someone already said this earlier, but you can raise the turn hoping to get value out of AK/AQ/44 or whatever else because he is generally (maybe not with 44) just calling your turn raise and now the pot is nice and big on the river to get a few hundred BBs in value off him. Also the alternative is to just call him down with the third nuts which seems weak. |
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#33
11-23-2007, 01:41 AM
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Re: [150NL] 88 Flopped set 550bb\'s Deep
[ QUOTE ]
given the information in the op, i think i prefer calling his turn bet, raising a river bet, and probably folding to a shove. [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, I like this line better too now that I think about it. I mean the turn raise is really only designed to get value from two hands, AK/44. And he'll probably fire a 3rd barrel w/ something like AQ/AJ if we flat...and likely calls a raise because we look so FOS. Although just raising turn isn't terrible either...meh, I'm still not really sure what I like best. I need to think about it some more. |
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#34
11-23-2007, 01:42 AM
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Re: [150NL] 88 Flopped set 550bb\'s Deep
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] given the information in the op, i think i prefer calling his turn bet, raising a river bet, and probably folding to a shove. [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, I like this line better too now that I think about it. I mean the turn raise is really only designed to get value from one hand, AK. And he'll probably fire a 3rd barrel w/ something like AQ/AJ if we flat...and likely calls a raise because we look so FOS. [/ QUOTE ] AK might just be one hand but it makes up the majority of his range imo |
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#35
11-23-2007, 01:45 AM
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Re: [150NL] 88 Flopped set 550bb\'s Deep
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] guys its 5 buyins deep. itswc not insta anything. set the koolaid aside and think this one thru [/ QUOTE ] yeah huh.... we have an underepped set and you want to fold... lolz. [/ QUOTE ] Ikes, I honestly think you are among the 3 best posters in SSNL, but your advice in this thread sucks. I never said fold. I was posting from my cell phone in the car, and hadn't really decided what I thought of the hand at that point. But if you think this is an easy decision, you're making a hugely -EV strategic decision. This is a huge decision, and a hard one too. I'm just saying think it thru, but so many people are like ZOMG SET INSTAPOOSH NOTHINK Our set is not underrepped. It's virtually the only hand we could possibly have. We might have AK once in a while, but we usually have exactly what we have. If we had bottom set we'd raise the flop, if we had top or 2nd set we'd push the turn. If we had any other hand we'd fold to the turn re-re-raise. The only hand that's left is 888. What's worse is villain has to know this. I think OP was wrong when he described him as a "good TAG" because his stats look pretty passive TAGfish to me. When he makes a small bet on the turn he's either seeing where he is at or trying to generate action. Well he got the action he wanted and now he wants more. He has to know hero has a hand he wants to felt, but villain still wants to felt his. IMO the only possible range for villain here is 44, KK, AA and rarely AK. Poker stove will probably tell me this is a super close decision, but I think there are two things that make it a fold. One is he isn't going to have AK that often. Usually when he has AK he will play it differently. Not sure how, but I am pretty sure he doesn't normally go nuts on the turn & river. This deep he will play a little pot control, and just call somewhere. Two is this guy is pretty passive. He only raises half the hands he plays, and his postflop aggro is pretty low for someone so tight. Both of these things combined tell me he has a hand he is sure is a lock. 44 is still in his range, as is AA and AK, but I think AK is only in his range when he's a little on tilt or making a big mistake. IMO this is a grit & fold. If you (OP) want to be mad at someone be mad at yourself for calling the turn raise without being sure you wanted to felt. |
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#36
11-23-2007, 01:49 AM
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Re: [150NL] 88 Flopped set 550bb\'s Deep
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I agree with the people who said you shouldn't raise the turn if you don't want to play for stacks. [/ QUOTE ] I don't really think this is true at all. someone already said this earlier, but you can raise the turn hoping to get value out of AK/AQ/44 or whatever else because he is generally (maybe not with 44) just calling your turn raise and now the pot is nice and big on the river to get a few hundred BBs in value off him. Also the alternative is to just call him down with the third nuts which seems weak. [/ QUOTE ] You're right - I misread the size of the pot on the turn [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] . There is still room for a value/pot bloating raise here. So raising the turn and folding to the turn 3-bet is the play right? And if he just calls the raise VB the river and fold to a crai? That would be so sick to get crai on that line though - like the HSP moment. |
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#37
11-23-2007, 01:49 AM
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Re: [150NL] 88 Flopped set 550bb\'s Deep
Also, IMO raising the turn wasn't a mistake, although I like raising the flop more. The biggest mistake was calling the re-raise if you weren't sure you wanted to play stacks. By far.
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#38
11-23-2007, 01:50 AM
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Re: [150NL] 88 Flopped set 550bb\'s Deep
[ QUOTE ]
I think OP was wrong when he described him as a "good TAG" because his stats look pretty passive TAGfish to me. [/ QUOTE ] Meh...in deep games you can get away w/ cold-calling pre a lot more. It's probably even optimal in a lot of cases. |
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#39
11-23-2007, 01:51 AM
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Re: [150NL] 88 Flopped set 550bb\'s Deep
I hadn't really thought of that. I was kind of assuming that most of the stats were on 100 bb games.
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