mandatory mental health evaluation for gun-rights supporters

[kurto]

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Exactly. I'd feel much safer walking around Philadelphia if I had a gun. And I don't blame any student (college or otherwise) for wanting to have a gun at his side after what's been going on the past years in this country.

People are less likely to commit violent crimes if they know that 95% of the people around them are armed.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm really surpsised that people would want college kids carrying firearms. I've been out of college for 15 years now but my memory is quite strong. I used to marvel at impulsiveness and the stupidity of drunken college kids even when I was one of them. We had bars on campus (syracuse university) and walking around them on weekend nights you could always count on seeing someone do something stupid. And, of course, a lot of random violence.

College kids are known for their maturity. I'm glad to say that we can't prove I'm right when I suggest; if you arm a college; homicides will escalate.

Youth are not known to be cool and levelheaded... particularly when they drink. I think you're asking for trouble if you want them all to be armed.

[tame_deuces]

[ QUOTE ]
pvn,

As usual, it should be noted that my opinion comes off as overstated because I'm forced to argue psuedo devil's advocate positions here. I don't think gun control is good a priori. I think liberals in this country make far too big an issue of gun control and go too far in their crusade against guns. It lets them sleep better at night.

[/ QUOTE ]

Let it be noted that I am not in favor of stricter gun control, I don't think it will change anything - by now I think any hypothetical problem with guns would be a cultural one and not a legal one.

I was merely trying to address that if we pick up the interpol charts it would seem the US is the first world nation in the world where people tend to shoot and point guns at eachother the most - and these are crime statistics, not justifiable homicide statistics and similar, but yet on anything else it seems to compare well.

[DblBarrelJ]

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Sounds like an unbiased opinion to me!


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Not more biased than any quotes from NRA and similar organizations!

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So your counter to bias is more bias?

Also, LOL at your "source". Listen to this whopper:

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Claim 2. Armed robberies are up by a "whopping" 44% since the new laws. In fact the rate of armed robbery increase dropped 12% in 1998.

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These two statements are not mutually exclusive, DUCY? Plus, data-cherry-picking FTW.













NOW REMEMBER, your statement that I asked for a cite on was this:

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Were all crimes with, or without, guns, eliminated? NO, in either cases, but they were reduced!

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Please provide a source that backs this statement. The one you've provided does not, since it acknowleges that crime increased after the new austrailian gun laws.

Continuing on...

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Lets put it this way. You favor unlimited gun ownership and you are in a room with a totally deranged person (they do exists). You would say that in the name of freedom you would like, or not object to, him to have a gun!?

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Why do I have to be compelled to be in a room with other people? I probably wouldn't want him to have a baseball bat, or knitting needles, or a fork, either.

Yet another case of jumping to edge-case scenarios (locked in an enclosed space with a "total nutcase") to justify impositions in the general case. If everyone were derranged and everyone were locked in rooms with other people, you might be on to something! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] <-- I'm going to start taking a page from the RedBean/Midge Secret Trolling Handbook and start using more smart-ass statements, of course dding a "!" and a "" to the end.

And since these people DO exist, I am certainly *entitled* to defend myself from them. Since these people DO manage to get guns (your precious gun control doesn't magically make them impossible to obtain) I certainly see a need for myself to have access to defensive measures.


Now, putting ALL of that aside, can you please explain why I need *your* permission in the first place?

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I just got teary eyed.

I was in the process of copying those English charts, couldn't find the Aussie ones though.

[kevin017]

^^ owned.

also from wikipedia,
"In 2006, the lack of any measurable effect from the 1996 firearms leglislation was confirmed using a statistical method (ARIMA), in a peer-reviewed article in the British Journal of Criminology by academics Dr Jeanine Baker (SSAA) and Dr Samara McPhedran (Women in Shooting and Hunting).[17] This paper was criticised, notably by economists Christine Neill and Andrew Leigh,[18], who argued in a blog link that time series methods are unreliable, but used those same methods to argue that gun deaths are lower now than they were on average in the 80 year period before the laws were introduced. Prominent Australian criminologist Don Weatherburn described the Baker & McPhedran article as "reputable" and "well-conducted" and stated that the available data are insufficient to draw stronger conclusions."

[DblBarrelJ]

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^^ owned.

also from wikipedia,
"In 2006, the lack of any measurable effect from the 1996 firearms leglislation was confirmed using a statistical method (ARIMA), in a peer-reviewed article in the British Journal of Criminology by academics Dr Jeanine Baker (SSAA) and Dr Samara McPhedran (Women in Shooting and Hunting).[17] This paper was criticised, notably by economists Christine Neill and Andrew Leigh,[18], who argued in a blog link that time series methods are unreliable, but used those same methods to argue that gun deaths are lower now than they were on average in the 80 year period before the laws were introduced. Prominent Australian criminologist Don Weatherburn described the Baker & McPhedran article as "reputable" and "well-conducted" and stated that the available data are insufficient to draw stronger conclusions."

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I love this logic. I understand it from a pure statistical perspective, however, it boggles my mind on a political level.

"So, the law doesn't make any sense, but we're unsure. We'll have to leave it on the books for 100 years or so to ensure that the sample size is big enough to determine whether we've made a difference."

[PLOlover]

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Claim 2. Armed robberies are up by a "whopping" 44% since the new laws. In fact the rate of armed robbery increase dropped 12% in 1998.

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wow this is so totally misleading on purpose.

[Metric]

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Claim 2. Armed robberies are up by a "whopping" 44% since the new laws. In fact the rate of armed robbery increase dropped 12% in 1998.

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wow this is so totally misleading on purpose.

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LOL -- wow, someone certainly brushed up on "how to lie with statistics" there, didn't they? The linked sight has ZERO credibility after something so totally deliberate and shameless...

[Metric]

Artful pvnage, pvn.

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Now, putting ALL of that aside, can you please explain why I need *your* permission in the first place?

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And an excellent question.

[BCPVP]

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Exactly. I'd feel much safer walking around Philadelphia if I had a gun. And I don't blame any student (college or otherwise) for wanting to have a gun at his side after what's been going on the past years in this country.

People are less likely to commit violent crimes if they know that 95% of the people around them are armed.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm really surpsised that people would want college kids carrying firearms. I've been out of college for 15 years now but my memory is quite strong. I used to marvel at impulsiveness and the stupidity of drunken college kids even when I was one of them. We had bars on campus (syracuse university) and walking around them on weekend nights you could always count on seeing someone do something stupid. And, of course, a lot of random violence.

College kids are known for their maturity. I'm glad to say that we can't prove I'm right when I suggest; if you arm a college; homicides will escalate.

Youth are not known to be cool and levelheaded... particularly when they drink. I think you're asking for trouble if you want them all to be armed.

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You don't know much about guns or people who carry them, do you?

[ALawPoker]

Hahaha. I was gonna reply asking why people still bothered to dignify Midge with a response, but this was well worth it.