The unexamined life isn't worth living (Theory post) (LC)

[SlickVic]

So I just finished my philosophy paper and I wanted to share what I learned to you guys in uNL.

"Wait a minute, how the heck does philosophy and poker mix? Has SlickVic's LAGtard play bustoed him and driven him off the deep end?"

No, haven't had time for a session (grad school is rigged don't do it lol) But I do have a few things I learned from reading some the classics most people would die from boredom trying to read.

To go back to the thread title, it basically means if you don't take a step back sometimes and take a look at where you're going and how you got there in life, you'll find that you are gonna most likely be in a spot you don't want to be. However in poker, you need to do this every hand you're in.

For example, i'll use a live hand from the Taj this summer. 1/2 FR, eff stacks are around 200 about an hour in. Everybody folds to the youngish TAG in MP who opens to 7, everyone folds to me and I wake up with red aces OTB, I repop it to 18 and he calls. The flop comes dry, 9d 4h 10s. He leads almost full pot. I tank for a minute then I asked "if I fold this will you show me your set?" He didn't move and I open-fold the aces. The guy stands up in shock and shows his 44 and the table explodes.

Before I visited this site I probably would have went broke there, but instead of just reading the board, preflop action and following the REM process, I first asked myself "why did he lead there?" I had been playing pretty straight-forward poker the whole night so why doesn't he let me c-bet the flop? He must have known I had an overpair because I haven't 3-bet much and he had saw me showdown AQo once for a decent sized pot that I just flat-called pre OTB. He probably thought I would just raise there and then he would shove for max value.

I knew I was playing tight and my cards were pretty much face up for him, and you would normally raise in that spot. But that lead bet made his cards face up for me too and it was for me an easy, but somewhat annoying fold. This isn't like normal hand reading, it's understanding why a player does an action or his motivation for raising/calling, etc. And the better you are at this the more that "marginal" spots for some suddenly become +EV, or you start dodging a lot more bullets and avoid getting stacked. I guess that's why sometimes I think the majority of this forum is nitty lol [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

I think the key to understanding people is to first examine yourself and how you play or have been playing during a session. I remember my first session on-line I took someone to valuetown for 3 streets only to find that he had second pair. I was kinda stunned but happy I won, but then I checked my stats and I was running a real solid 40/36! [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] (I had a huge run of good cards/good situations) and he probably thought MPTK was good enough there. When you can see your own image at the table the next step is using it to your advantage. I average around 24/20 but it can get as high as 36/29 and as low as 18/16 so when you're seen as tight you can now fire a bluff for a big pot of two when the situation allows and your monsters get more value with you have been lagging it up. The problem here especially in uNL is if they have been paying attention to your play or not. But your image is only one thing of many. They do have cards too, and a board to worry about.

I think that finding the EV of a certain action, and narrowing their hand range down based on certain action or the math and the logic part of poker is the easiest part. But if you can understand your tablemates, and where they are coming from, you'll be on the fast track to SSNL/MSNL.
And to start, all you have to do is when the action's to you, before you hit any button, sit back and ask yourself "Why did they do that?"



I had one more idea, something I thought about when I first started thinking about this thread, but it isn't very long for me to explain so i'll stick it in here. I first thought about how people should be examining their sessions, but that should be a given here. But I also thought that there is a time when some people don't want to see them.

When they're on a downswing.

I know from experience it's hard to do, and when you're on a downswing all of a sudden your leaks are turned into excuses for "running bad." and they go unnoticed. Poker has the same characteristics of a drug for your average break-even player. You get your highs and you're happy, then your hit your lows. So how do you get yourself to want to play poker again? Well, at the same time isn't poker like a job? You still make money right? It's just not to show off to people how much you have in your cashier window right? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] And how do you find happiness from working? You buy something, you take your friends out for drinks, take a vacation, etc. And the perfect time to do this is during a downswing. The key here is poker now has a purpose for me, I brought this or I did this or went there and now I can do more. It makes you want to come back and play/review again. Why do you think Doyle Brunson is still at the tables at 80? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Anyway if you somehow read all of it I hope this helped you, it's something that sorta hit me as I was writing today and I don't know if it was said yet. If it was I guess it's better to re-read it [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] I'm off to celebrate Penn St's win so I won't get back to any responses till late tomorrow [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Good luck at the tables.

[creamfillin]

I stopped reading after I read about the live AA 1/2 hand. That said, I appreciate the effort.

[SlickVic]

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I stopped reading after I read about the live AA 1/2 hand. That said, I appreciate the effort.

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I tried to think of something easy to get the point across where I had reads on somebody, I don't remember many big live hands and my latest sessions have been pretty standard. Sorry if it bothered you [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

[Antinome]

Socrates made me fold Aces once, too. Bastard.

[members_only]

Raise more pf

[SlickVic]

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Raise more pf

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Don't think it mattered, but if you're gonna read any of this (for the tl;dr crowd) read the part about downswings on the bottom I think that's the part I got right apparently

I know that example was extreme, I kinda wanted it to be like the example that DS and Ed Miller talk about in NLH:TAP or SSHE about the battle of mistakes when they talk about folding a royal flush to a bet. It was crazy but it got the point across. I normally do go broke there but the guy played all his made hands so straight-forward that it could have been a mistake and I guessed right somehow. The point I was trying to make is before you go through your usual routine of finding REM and what action is +EV is to stop and think why he did what he did and then go through the motions.

[members_only]

It matters hugely.

And while the idea that it's important to consider your actions in time (ie in terms of their future consequences etc) is kind of interesting, I'm not convinced your application of it to poker is anything beyond banal

Also disagree that happiness re working comes from spending the money you earn doing that work, or that a downswing is the best time to spend poker monies

Sounds like you got a lot out of your philosophy paper though so good for you (serious)

[DerrtySlime]

i dont like this.

[SlickVic]

blah I really had good intentions here but, it seems I screwed up i'm not gonna defend this anymore, already notified ama. Sorry [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[RobTheDuck]

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already notified ama

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lol at turning yourself in

and therefore...

IN before lock! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]