Raising 99 UTG gets 3-bet by SB

[TommyChong]

Raise/Fold. Maybe call the 3bet and fold the turn UI if you are concerned about table image.

[borges]

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It all depends on the hand range we put him on. a tight player 3-betting from SB the UTG raiser....I think we have to say the range is TT+,AK,AQs
There are 30 combos of PP's that have us crushed...16 AK, 4 AQs....
Suppose we just call it down and bricks fall on turn and river. Our EV is
(8 + 5 + 5) (20/50) - 5 = 2.2 small bets.

So, call it down...if an A or K falls on Turn or River...fold.

[/ QUOTE ]Having an ev of 2,2 small bets is worthless when our opponents always will let us pay 5 small bets (flop, turn, river) when we have 2 outs and will only give us a few small bets when he has 6 outs.

To play this correctly you will have to know things like, will he bet flop,turn,river UI with AK/Q? What will he do with AK/Q when i will bet into him? etc.

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No, it's not worthless...there is an 8sb pot to fight over. Your line allows you to get pushed off the pot by an aggressive player....there are pluses and minuses to everything.....you can calculate out the EV of him check/folding
the turn UI if he as AK,AQs.....what do you get? Calling it down will still be be
plus EV.

[Aaron W.]

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aaron - as far as lines for this hand go - it depends totally on how much you trust this guy.

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I've told you everything I know about him.

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the possible lines:

1. raise flop, fold to 3-bet. value bet turn + river if not 3-bet.
2. call flop, raise turn, fold to 3-bet. value bet river if not.
3. call flop, call turn, fold river.
4. call flop, call turn, call river.

the less you know about the guy, the more you want to shy away from lines 1 and 2. if you have literally no idea about the guy, you pick line 4. line 3 falls inbetween.

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I disagree with your assessment.

I think #3 is the line that requires the best read. If I'm folding against an unknown, I'm folding to a check-raise or a 3-bet, not to bet-bet-bet. I would take #1 and #2 as the in-between lines and I prefer #2 because you can make overcards fold incorrectly sometimes.

[jaxUp]

Aaron,

I feel like there is no value in betting the river if we choose ine 2. I think a lot of the time we're up against TT-AA that fears the 8 (moreso TT-QQ)

[Aaron W.]

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Aaron,

I feel like there is no value in betting the river if we choose ine 2. I think a lot of the time we're up against TT-AA that fears the 8 (moreso TT-QQ)

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Checking behind is okay, too. AA-TT = 30 hands, so if villain pays off with AK/AQ = 32 hands, it's a pretty thin value bet.

[jaxUp]

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Aaron,

I feel like there is no value in betting the river if we choose ine 2. I think a lot of the time we're up against TT-AA that fears the 8 (moreso TT-QQ)

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Checking behind is okay, too. AA-TT = 30 hands, so if villain pays off with AK/AQ = 32 hands, it's a pretty thin value bet.

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I think they pay off the pocket pairs every time and the UI OCs probably less than 1/2 the time, especially if unknown.

[jaustin]

God this is a tricky hand.

I've read all the responses and am still incredibly torn.

I think I would raise this flop, call a 3-bet and fold the turn UI. If the flop raise was only called and the turn was a brick I would still be torn between betting the turn or checking it through and calling the river.

There are so many considerations. Will villain 3-bet TT vs. your UTG raise? If so, he could be ahead of you but afraid of JJ (the only PP that you're unlikely to cap PF). Will he continue to bet AK or AQs UI on the turn and river?

What are the 2-4 games like on Stars? I'm currently on Hold 'Em Poker and the games are infested with bonus-whoring TAGs (there's an amazing $1000 10x bonus for those who are interested). I know you don't have any reads on villain, but knowing the table will help.

I want to take this hand to showdown and I think the best way is to raise the flop (call a 3-bet and fold turn UI), check the turn (no C/R from AA, KK), and call the river (a donk may bet AK/AQs) or bet if checked to.

[Marquis]

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God this is a tricky hand.


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It's not tricky if you just call every street. On a hand like this I'd pick that line because it avoids getting involved in a battle with an apparent TAG who I have no read on postflop-wise.

[milesdyson]

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aaron - as far as lines for this hand go - it depends totally on how much you trust this guy.

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I've told you everything I know about him.

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you said what you knew about him in one sentence on a message board. when you are sitting at the table and know how the table as a whole is playing, you will have a better idea about a villain's play than i will after reading a sentence that simply says "he has played 2-3 hands out of a few orbits." what was his screen name? how did he play the hands he played? did he raise preflop ever? did he ever say anything at the table? not that i would expect you to know all of these things, but your brain may register them subconsciously to give you a better idea of, as i said, "how much you trust him."

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the possible lines:

1. raise flop, fold to 3-bet. value bet turn + river if not 3-bet.
2. call flop, raise turn, fold to 3-bet. value bet river if not.
3. call flop, call turn, fold river.
4. call flop, call turn, call river.

the less you know about the guy, the more you want to shy away from lines 1 and 2. if you have literally no idea about the guy, you pick line 4. line 3 falls inbetween.

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I disagree with your assessment.

I think #3 is the line that requires the best read. If I'm folding against an unknown, I'm folding to a check-raise or a 3-bet, not to bet-bet-bet. I would take #1 and #2 as the in-between lines and I prefer #2 because you can make overcards fold incorrectly sometimes.

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i pretty much just worded my post wrong here. i did not mean that you did not need a good read to call/call/fold this hand. 1, 2, and 3, all require pretty good reads. line 4 is the only one i like against an unknown.

the problem with raising anywhere is just simply getting outplayed. i dont know how many aggro donks you'll get at stars 2/4 but at absolute you will get repopped here enough with overcards to never raise/fold again in your life.