Congressmen Press for Solution to WTO Internet Gambling Dispute

[Russ Fox]

[ QUOTE ]
But a company operating an online gambling website in a foreign company is not doing business in the United States. When you gamble at their website, you are doing so under the jurisdiction of the country in which the site is located. You agree to this condition. All sites terms and conditions state this condition. So the foreign website is not making any income in the United States.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's true for any jurisdictional issues if you (a customer) wish to sue the Internet gambling site. However, a case can be made that these sites are doing business in the US. Chuck Humphrey wrote an article dealing with this issue. A reasonable conclusion based on that article is that the US could consider that the sites are operating in the US.

Obviously, the sites would vigorously argue that they don't operate in the US. However, this is definitely not settled law.

If the US were to successfully get a court to rule that the sites owe US income tax, your conclusion that this would be a further violation of the WTO might be moot. I suspect that many countries would have their tax agencies follow the US' lead in going after the sites (perhaps it's just the cynic in me having dealt with various state tax agencies).

-- Russ Fox

[JPFisher55]

My point is that no other country attempts to make this case over jurisdiction of foreign companies with no assets within its borders.

[Russ Fox]

[ QUOTE ]
My point is that no other country attempts to make this case over jurisdiction of foreign companies with no assets within its borders.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think this is correct. Yahoo! has faced government action in France. Various online companies have faced government action in Germany. I imagine that if I researched this issue I would find numerous cases of Internet (web) companies facing actions in countries where all they have is a "virtual" presence.

-- Russ Fox

[ubercuber]

[ QUOTE ]
But S&S has pushed this philosophy close to the breaking point. To the point that I may out these "people" myself.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well it seems clear they are not just an organization looking out for poker players! I assume they have an interest that undermines their credibility. So, since we know that much we might as well know who it is...

[JPFisher55]

France and Germany have attempted to prosecute foreign online gambling sites, but the EU have completely shut that down. China has threatened CNN and some other websites and gotten them to cooperate. But I don't want to equate China with US.
I have not researched prosecutions by countries against foreign websites like the US v. WSEX or BetOnSports, but I have read numerous articles about this type of jurisdiction without mention of similar cases. One exception is a website advertising in a foreign country. But when a company advertises on media in another country then it establishes a presence beyond just a website. Maybe Yahoo was investigated etc. for advertising in France?
Anyway the WTO pending action is going to affect this matter in a big way and soon.

[JeffreyS]

I'm glad that our post has generated this conversation, but please do not misrepresent this organization and the facts.

The Safe and Secure Internet Gambling Initiative supports the regulation of Internet gambling, including skill games such as poker, sports betting and casino games. If poker becomes regulated before anything else, we would consider that a win. However, we believe that the government should give us a freedom to place wagers on all types of games, not just poker.

In response to the question of whether the Frank bill would resolve the WTO dispute, below is a recent Reuters article where the EU Trade Commissioner says that this would be the case. The reality, whether you believe it or not, is that a legislative solution could resolve the dispute.

EU's Mandelson: U.S. needs to change gambling laws
Tue Nov 20, 2007 5:35pm EST

BRUSSELS (Reuters) - European trade chief Peter Mandelson said the United States should let foreign companies into its multibillion-dollar online gaming market instead of trying to compensate European firms for shutting them out.

"The U.S. has so far opted for compensation to make right what is wrong. I don't think compensation does that job," he told members of the European Parliament on Tuesday.

The European Union and other trading partners have been in compensation talks with the United States over Washington's decision to remove gambling services retroactively from commitments it made as part of a 1994 world trade agreement.

Billions of pounds were wiped off the market value of European online gaming companies when the United States closed off its market last year.

"What we really need is for the legislation to be put right and for foreign operators to stop being excluded and discriminated against in the way the present U.S. legislation does," Mandelson said.

Mandelson met U.S. Representative Barney Frank during a visit to Washington this month and he said on Tuesday he was hopeful Frank's attempts to change the law would be successful.

"I will continue to make these arguments on behalf of the European industry," Mandelson said.

[JPFisher55]

Sorry, Jeffrey but the article does not state that the IGREA would comply with the WTO decision. It would not, but it could be amended to comply. Simply put the US has to treat all online gambling, and maybe all gambling, the same to comply with the WTO decision.
Sure if the IGREA was amended to apply to all online lotteries, pari-mutual betting, fantasy sports and all other types of gambling and skill games then it would comply with the WTO decision. IMO such amendment will not happen.
Why isn't your organization for free, unregulated and untaxed online gambling before any regulation or taxation?

[Legislurker]

Jeffrey dude, maybe you need a new namecolour, maybe [censored] brown for what comes out of your mouth? You make a statement worded like talking points aimed at sheep. Youre for your own damned profit, not poker. Maybe you should post more at the PPA, unless they are your business rivals? This is a discussion and ideas board, not a gd troll stop.