High Stakes Poker thread (10/29 - spoilers possible)

[FortWorthJim]

1. Hellmuth said clearly several times the chop cards did not count, there would be no action on them.

2. Remember, this was, by far, the biggest game Galfond has ever played. The Full Tilt games are max $60K, but most of the action has been at max $40K.

No matter how good a player is, he has to be a bit nervous playing in a game that is about double the size of his normal game, on television, where he knows he will be judged by his peers (and a lot of people he doesn't consider his peers).

It was a simple mistake, but it was only the second time we've seen that in the hours and hours of televised poker.

And the first guy who did it got ripped to shreds.

[JDesab]

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JD, there are so many things wrong with the long post above that I don't even know where to start...

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I'm sure ... unlike most of you internet guru's i never have claimed to be an expert.

[Jbrochu]

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i will say that i dislike this move. of course if he decided that he really wanted to play the T7 some say that raising it up with the hand is the best way to play. i disagree, from early position i would only raise with a hand that i'd have no problem making a continuation bet without improving. obviously jman was not committed to this move so i think he made a mistake in raising. i'm sure that he didn't want 5 callers... maybe that was the major impact on him checking the flop AK7. can't really blame him for that. if he had been in late position perhaps he would have taken a stab.


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I don't know about you, but there are roughly zero hands I make a c-bet with into five players with basically air on a dangerous board.

As far as your comment regarding T,7 in general as a c-betting hand, I'm not sure where you're going with it. Let's say your flop was K,6,5 rainbow. Would you rather c-bet T,7 or QQ in that case? Based on your comments above, I'm going to guess you would rather c-bet QQ.

[markksman]

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as the river goes checked... i "think" that jman should start believing that his 7 could be good. obviously he was sold on the fact that he couldn't possibly have the winner so he mucked. no biggy. it does happen live. we've all made that mistake and we say "ouch" and move on.


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That is bogus. Even an absolute green newbie who is playing for the first time would not make that mistake. It is not a defensible play. Look how fast he mucked his hand. It is hard to beleive he has ANY live poker experience doing that.

If you have done that, I don't know what it says about you.

How do you explain him STARING at Eli's hand, and not recognizing he TIED. Then later lamely claiming he might have had the best hand and mucked it. Would you also not call attention to your dumb mistake? It is still money. Suck it up and get it.

I will accept that his lack of live table experience, the circumstances of this game (stakes, players he is surrounded with, being on television), all came together and overwhelm him and make him make a very dumb mistake.

Why is he rushing to muck his hand and hide his cards on a 6 way check? Because he is used to playing and mouse clicking buttons on his computer and not having to pay attention and letting the computer fix any dumb mistakes he might make.

[JDesab]

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As far as your comment regarding T,7 in general as a c-betting hand, I'm not sure where you're going with it. Let's say your flop was K,6,5 rainbow. Would you rather c-bet T,7 or QQ in that case? Based on your comments above, I'm going to guess you would rather c-bet QQ.

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of course i would have c-bet the QQ hand.

i said.. i don't like the play here. out of position. so that he checked it down i don't have a problem with that play.

sheesh

[JDesab]

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If you have done that, I don't know what it says about you.


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that i am human.

who are you.. the marlboro man.. get off your high horse

[Bonified]

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1. Hellmuth said clearly several times the chop cards did not count, there would be no action on them.


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So how come he even more clearly negotiated the insurance on the basis that 36 cards lost (for him) and 8 cards won ? This still doesn't add up.

Edit : On discussing this with a friend, I'm probably making too much of it. Phil quoted it as 36-8 but thanks to the two mistakes he made (missing the 9 in Eli's hand and forgetting that splits don't count) cancelling each other out, it was really 31-7 which isn't that much different. I doubt there was any angle being shot. All the same, it's no wonder Ivey was following him around taking his insurance bets in the summer.

[SpaceJanitor]

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FWIW i didnt see the james woods hands, and i wouldnt flame him either...


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--> youtube link to the Woods hand

In my opinion, It is made to look a bit worse than jman's hand, but when you have a pair of 4s and two opponents talk about what pairs they hold...

Both mucks are kind of stupid but not a big deal imo, the pots were insignificant, it's more or less like a misclick online.

ETA: and I'll freely admit to having made mistakes that were more stupid than that in live play.

[BossMC]

You really can't compare a misclick with this. Misclicking is not an intended action. Mucking early is. There is nothing to gain with mucking a pair early in a check hand like this. It's just an impulsive redundant act, typical for the inexperienced live player.

There is no difference between Woods' and Jman's hand, both players muck a pair without having visual confirmation of being beat.

[Micro Donk]

just an idea i thought of, doubt its true but just to throw it out

galfond misread his hand. galfond could have originally thought he has Ts8s, but after showdown may have wondered if he really did have the 7. not likely though, but seems most reasonable since i dont know why he would auto muck it...or maybe he somehow say sammys 8s and got 2nd thoughts...

meh just throwing stuff out there

i just dont see why people gotta hate on jman, or james woods, for making a mistake. but whatever, i know how people like to overreact