Is It OK To Have A Mormon President?

David Sklansky · #1 08-19-2007, 05:32 PM

Peter 666, surprisingly said yes. Here is my stance:

If I believe a Mormon candidate is telling the truth when he says he won't bring his beliefs into his governmental decisions it is possible that he would make a good president. But only under two conditions.

1. He doesn't think his beliefs are self evident. In other words he doesn't believe that any rational person, upon examining the evidence, would be dumb to disbelieve in Mormonism. Because if he did believe that, it means that it is he, who can't think straight. (Of course it is true that I would say this regarding any religion, including yours. But you can't use that fact as a reason to reject this line of thinking regarding Mormons. Because you agree with me that you cannot arrive at Mormonism through rational thought and investigation.)

2. He doesn't believe that practioners of other religions or atheism, are doomed to hell, regardless of the goodness of their actions. Or that believers are almost guaranteed heaven. To see why it is dangerous to have someone like that in office, one need only look to the Middle East.

Aside from those of you who pick apart anything I say, I believe most of you will basically agree with the above. Perhaps someone out there knows someone who knows someone who is in a position to ask Romney about these two things. Or others candidates as well for that matter.

boracay · #2 08-19-2007, 05:52 PM

i'd add
anyone who feels 'religious first' and not 'american first' would be a very bad choice.
anyone who's hearing voices in their dreams and then follow them would be a very bad choice.

Phil153 · #3 08-19-2007, 05:59 PM

Sounds reasonable. #1 has to be stronger than #2 though.

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Aside from those of you who pick apart anything I say

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I think you managed to annoy some ivory tower mathematicians with your cutting (and accurate) insults. Please keep up the good work.

Bork · #4 08-19-2007, 05:59 PM

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Because if he did believe that, it means that it is he, who can't think straight.

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WRT#1 I think people can and often do have stupid beliefs which are the result of poor thinking, but be straight thinkers generally and on important issues. I don't think many people can think clearly on every issue. So, while having stupid beliefs suggests one might generally be a poor thinker, I think poor thinking in many cases is isolated in attempting to rationalize one's faith.

Kaj · #5 08-19-2007, 11:37 PM

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i'd add
anyone who feels 'american first' and not "liberty and democracy first" would be a very bad choice.

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David Sklansky · #6 08-20-2007, 12:00 AM

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Because if he did believe that, it means that it is he, who can't think straight.

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WRT#1 I think people can and often do have stupid beliefs which are the result of poor thinking, but be straight thinkers generally and on important issues. I don't think many people can think clearly on every issue. So, while having stupid beliefs suggests one might generally be a poor thinker, I think poor thinking in many cases is isolated in attempting to rationalize one's faith.

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But unless he was far superior to others, why take the risk?

Stu Pidasso · #7 08-20-2007, 12:03 AM

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1. He doesn't think his beliefs are self evident. In other words he doesn't believe that any rational person, upon examining the evidence, would be dumb to disbelieve in Mormonism. Because if he did believe that, it means that it is he, who can't think straight. ( Of course it is true that I would say this regarding any religion, including yours . But you can't use that fact as a reason to reject this line of thinking regarding Mormons. Because you agree with me that you cannot arrive at Mormonism through rational thought and investigation.)

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Excluding any specific religion....Would you say the same thing about a general belief in God? Mormon Joe gives a speech at a campaign stop and says, "The mormon religion isn't self evident, but God is." And to himself he then says "Anyone who doesn't believe that is dumb". Do you think that guy make a good candidate?

Stu

David Sklansky · #8 08-20-2007, 01:13 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
1. He doesn't think his beliefs are self evident. In other words he doesn't believe that any rational person, upon examining the evidence, would be dumb to disbelieve in Mormonism. Because if he did believe that, it means that it is he, who can't think straight. ( Of course it is true that I would say this regarding any religion, including yours . But you can't use that fact as a reason to reject this line of thinking regarding Mormons. Because you agree with me that you cannot arrive at Mormonism through rational thought and investigation.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Excluding any specific religion....Would you say the same thing about a general belief in God? Mormon Joe gives a speech at a campaign stop and says, "The mormon religion isn't self evident, but God is." And to himself he then says "Anyone who doesn't believe that is dumb". Do you think that guy make a good candidate?

Stu

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That's a close one. Especially if he includes a non personal God.

Shandrax · #9 08-20-2007, 02:52 AM

This thread makes me wonder if it is ok that the president has ~95% jewish advisors. Most of them come from a company named AEI (American Enterprises Institute).

The BBC has made an interesting documentation about them called "The War Party", which can easily be found on google.video or youtube.

The point is that there is not only a conflict of interests about religion. Who guarantees that jewish advisors protect the interests of the US more than the interests of Israel?

Isn't the whole conflict with the Islam a direct follow up to the US Middle East Policy?

As you can see, if you move the topic from absolutely non-relevant discussions about theoretical scenarios involving mormon presidents to something actual that really matters to every american right now, you immediately open the Box of Pandora.

Btw, is it ok to have a president who was born in Austria? Germany had a pretty bad experience with that. What would Bayes Theorem tell us about this choice?

David Sklansky · #10 08-20-2007, 03:23 AM

A Mormon is one of the front runners in the Republican Party.

And if the Jewish advisors you talk about believe that their religion is obviously and objectively, more likely to be correct than atheism, all other religions combined, and other not yet thought of theories about God, then they are complete morons as well.