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  #1  
Old 10-19-2007, 08:06 AM
WantToLearn WantToLearn is offline
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Default NL10 flushdraw+ weak onepair w/ 4-to-straight on board, oop

Ok, some advice needed, thank you very much!

<u>Question</u>: What to do (turn)

<u>Reads:</u> The villains are both not-so-good players. That means, they will sometimes surprise us w/ strange hands (as the might play Qxs, small unsuited connectors), they will slowplay anything better then one-pair often, but sometimes call w/ bad hands, but not necessarily when the betting gets very big.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero ($10.70)
UTG ($5.90)
UTG+1 ($10.90)
MP1 ($3.45)
MP2 ($8.65)
CO ($12.25)
Button ($3.85)
SB ($7.30)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls $0.10, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP1 calls $0.10, MP2 calls $0.10, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls $0.10, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: ($0.60) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $0.6</font>, UTG folds, MP1 calls $0.60, MP2 calls $0.60, Button folds, SB folds.

Turn: ($2.40) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero ???</font>

<font color="blue"> Now, a there´s many a hand w/ a seven in their playing range. On the other hand, their calling the flop may be on principle, or with a hand that I beat w/ a 6 or an A as a river card.

Now what?
Get aggressiv, and how much?
Check to them? How much do we call? Implied odds should be good if they have something, given the kind of player they are. MP2, that is, as the other one doesn´t have much behind.</font>
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  #2  
Old 10-19-2007, 09:25 AM
GrumpyB GrumpyB is offline
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Default Re: NL10 flushdraw+ weak onepair w/ 4-to-straight on board, oop

I’m a beginner who comes here looking for advice, so for God’s sake don’t take what I say seriously. I’m just saying what a dumb guy like me would do so that I can then see what the smart guys say later. [It’s way too easy to see what they say first and then think, ‘Hey I knew that!]

Well first I’d think all I’ve got is bottom pair (even if it is with great kicker), so I’m loosing to a lot more than a straight. And neither villain wanted to give up even in the face of a pot-sized bet, so with two of them having position on me I don’t want to commit as much as it would probably take to get rid of them both - even if they only have as much as top or middle pair, so my first thought's call.

Then, in the likely event of a raise well there are 9 outs to a flush, or 12 outs with the three Aces if two pair will be enough (except against A8. A9, AT) – so I’d probably take this risk (with implied odds) of calling a bet up to 1.00 from MP1 (with fold or call by MP2), but I’d fear being squeezed in the face of a call by MP1 and a raise by MP2 – so I’d fold to a raise of any more that 0.50 by MP2.

Hmmmmm. So on second thoughts, maybe a blocking bet of 0.50 may be worth a try. [Lets hop that someone who knows what they are talking about comes along soon [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] ]
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  #3  
Old 10-19-2007, 09:36 AM
swainy swainy is offline
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Default Re: NL10 flushdraw+ weak onepair w/ 4-to-straight on board, oop

personally, i dont like blocking bets... they are obvious and vulnerable to exploitation.

Against two opponents in this spot, and that board, i would check call with good implied odds to avoid being raised out of the hand.

sounds like your opponents' range is fairly wide and they could be calling that flop with any sort of draw, any pair, or even overs. If you hit an A or 6 i would probably check-call the river too
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  #4  
Old 10-19-2007, 09:38 AM
rachkane rachkane is offline
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Default Re: NL10 flushdraw+ weak onepair w/ 4-to-straight on board, oop

This is a perfect spot to misrepresent your hand.

At NL10, you're more likely to get paid off on the river when you hit your flush. But...you want to get to the river as cheaply as possible.

If you bet 1.50 - 1.75 and still get 2 callers, your odds for drawing to the flush are correct.
You've also taken control of the hand(!) and can bet out the river (and hopefully get called) when your flush comes because you've been repping a pair.
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  #5  
Old 10-19-2007, 10:46 AM
WantToLearn WantToLearn is offline
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Default Re: NL10 flushdraw+ weak onepair w/ 4-to-straight on board, oop

[ QUOTE ]
I&amp;#8217;m a beginner who comes here looking for advice, so for God&amp;#8217;s sake don&amp;#8217;t take what I say seriously.

[/ QUOTE ]

That kind of sounds like the way I normaly start my advice to others, and yours is just as welcome as everybody else´s!

[img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
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  #6  
Old 10-19-2007, 10:50 AM
WantToLearn WantToLearn is offline
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Default Re: NL10 flushdraw+ weak onepair w/ 4-to-straight on board, oop

[ QUOTE ]
This is a perfect spot to misrepresent your hand.

At NL10, you're more likely to get paid off on the river when you hit your flush. But...you want to get to the river as cheaply as possible.

If you bet 1.50 - 1.75 and still get 2 callers, your odds for drawing to the flush are correct.
You've also taken control of the hand(!) and can bet out the river (and hopefully get called) when your flush comes because you've been repping a pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

That sounds like very sound advice.

But... in case they don´t lay down, it´s quite likely we will be facing a raise.

So, how do we react if MP2, say, shoves, if MP1
a. did
b. did not
call our bet?
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  #7  
Old 10-19-2007, 11:58 AM
ElectricWaffles ElectricWaffles is offline
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Default Re: NL10 flushdraw+ weak onepair w/ 4-to-straight on board, oop

Okay, i'm a n00b too, so again the usual disclaimer...

What's the purpose of potting the flop? I guess it disguises your draw, but I think i'm missing the point here. You obv. cant take down the pot owing to the number of people seeing it, are you doing that to inflate the pot? Why do we want a big pot here?

The turn. I guess my move would be to check/call here. If you bet and somebody has the 7, you're going to get raised. Is it not the case that you want to see the river as cheaply as possible? I wouldn't worry too much about a heart on the river killing the action. I think with 'not-so-good' players as outlined in your post they often see more the absolute strength of their hand rather than the relative strength. I.E "I've got a sraight, thats a stong hand so i'm not folding" rather than "I've got a straight but this guy looks like he was drawing by check/calling, he could have the flush here". Do you see what I mean?

I see the other point about betting $1 and still getting the odds to draw if you get two callers, but I think if somebody has a 7 and you come out betting then you're going to get raised, denying you the right odds.

Somebody with a 7 is probably going to bet around 2/3rds - full pot if it's checked to them, or they'll slowplay for some reason. If they bet you'll probably still have the (implied) odds to call, where as if you bet out yourself and get raised you wont.

I hope thats lucid!

It may or may not be correct, it's just the way I see it =)
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  #8  
Old 10-19-2007, 12:04 PM
justscott justscott is offline
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Default Re: NL10 flushdraw+ weak onepair w/ 4-to-straight on board, oop

I think even the donkey of Donks is smart enough to raise you out if he has the straight there.
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  #9  
Old 10-19-2007, 12:15 PM
Mike Kelley Mike Kelley is offline
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Default Re: NL10 flushdraw+ weak onepair w/ 4-to-straight on board, oop

I would probably go for a C/R on the flop as you have a strong drawing hand and flop C/R's usually get quite a bit of respect, so you would also have nice Fold Equity.

I'd probably just check/call if I had the odds to draw at my flush.
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