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#71
11-22-2007, 02:24 AM
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Re: Great film
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] And no, Anton didn't not kill Moss. The Mexicans who found out where Moss was going killed him in a big shootout and stole the money. In the book, though, Chigurh ends up with the money, so it's safe to assume he caught up with the Mexicans. [/ QUOTE ] I was under the impression Chigurh did get the money when he went back to the scene (they made it a point to mention the mexicans were in a rush and didn't have much time. Chigurgh's dime was on the floor near the vent; indicating he had opened the vent, where the money may or may not have been). [/ QUOTE ] this is what i thought happened in both the book and the movie. 
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#73
11-22-2007, 07:44 PM
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Re: Great film
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] And no, Anton didn't not kill Moss. The Mexicans who found out where Moss was going killed him in a big shootout and stole the money. In the book, though, Chigurh ends up with the money, so it's safe to assume he caught up with the Mexicans. [/ QUOTE ] I was under the impression Chigurh did get the money when he went back to the scene (they made it a point to mention the mexicans were in a rush and didn't have much time. Chigurgh's dime was on the floor near the vent; indicating he had opened the vent, where the money may or may not have been). [/ QUOTE ] this is what i thought happened in both the book and the movie. [/ QUOTE ] i was about to comment on this, and then you guys mentioned it. i'm just going to white out the rest of my post below. <font color="white">at first, i wasn't sure what went on in the motel room at the crime scene. it was a little unclear where in the room anton was when jones saw the movement through the door. i, too, thought maybe he was just behind the door the whole time. then, when jones enters the bathroom, they clearly focus on the window latch. at this point, i figured anton had escaped sometime after they showed him standing in the dark room and before jones cocked his gun and opened the door. after they show the window latch, jones goes back to the living room, looks down, and sees the dime and open vent. this is where moss hid the money, and i believe they showed it to say that anton got the money and escaped out the bathroom window. the stuff i list below i have no idea how people got: - anton killed moss - jones imagined seeing anton in the room - anton wasn't in the room jones was looking into - anton is like a ghost the stuff i do feel similarly about: - the car accident near the end, other than the similarities it - kind of - shows between moss and anton - the tie-in between the opening monologue and the closing dream (i felt like i was supposed to know who the person was in the second dream, but i didn't) and finally, did the office dude hire anton to find this money and subsequently hire woody when anton hadn't found it soon enough? that's what i got from the conversation that went something like this: dude: i figured having more tools on the job i'd get the money faster. anton: my philosophy is having the best tool for the job.</font>
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#74
11-22-2007, 09:28 PM
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Re: A Big Disappointment
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Good stuff, thanks. You're right, the characters are certainly not sloppy and dimwitted, like the Fargo characters. They showed resourcefulness. Moss was thoughtful, but in the end not thoughtful enough. None of the characters were smart enough to succeed. The only thing with which I definitely disagree is your last sentence. Surely his desire for the money was what did Moss and his wife in. Please explain why you think otherwise. Thanks again. [/ QUOTE ] A lot of people will miss this and I missed it the first time I read the book. This is a mild spoiler, so don't read this if you are planning on seeing the movie guys. <font color="white">When Moss takes the money and goes back to his wife no one knows about it. Neither the drug sellers, buyers, nor Chigurh have any idea that Moss took the money. The transponder only works at close range, and he might have been found later, but that is a big maybe. Moss goes back to the scene and has to abandon his truck to escape. His truck gives away his identity and seals his fate. Moss goes back the second time to bring water to the wounded Mexican. He tells his wife, "I'm fixin to do something dumber than hell, but I'm going to do it anyway." He can't leave the man to die. He just can't do it. This is what gets him into the mess. This is also how he is different than the sheriff. The book ends with the sheriff telling a story of leaving his men behind to die in the heat of battle. There is more to it than this, of course. But in my mind, the money isn't what gets Moss killed, it's the moral code that he follows that won't allow him to leave a man to die. </font> I know you were expecting me to wax philosophical on why it's not about the money. But there is actually tangible evidence that it wasn't the money that got him into the mess. Of course it's just my opinion. I like talking about movies and books I enjoy, so keep asking away. To your point about none of the characters being smart enough to survive. This is a hallmark of all tragedies. I'm an intelligent person myself and I enjoy tragedies because they are full of brilliant people, good and bad, who will never reach a happy ending. Just makes for great art. [/ QUOTE ] GTL, (in white) <font color="white">If Moss doesn't go back to give water to the dying Mexican, he never gets seen. However, there is still the transponder in the satchel. It is the fact that he goes back and gets seen that allows him to last as long as he does. Otherwise, Chigurh just shows up unexpected and blasts him and his wife to hell. </font>
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#75
11-23-2007, 01:22 AM
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Re: A Big Disappointment
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Good stuff, thanks. You're right, the characters are certainly not sloppy and dimwitted, like the Fargo characters. They showed resourcefulness. Moss was thoughtful, but in the end not thoughtful enough. None of the characters were smart enough to succeed. The only thing with which I definitely disagree is your last sentence. Surely his desire for the money was what did Moss and his wife in. Please explain why you think otherwise. Thanks again. [/ QUOTE ] A lot of people will miss this and I missed it the first time I read the book. This is a mild spoiler, so don't read this if you are planning on seeing the movie guys. <font color="white">When Moss takes the money and goes back to his wife no one knows about it. Neither the drug sellers, buyers, nor Chigurh have any idea that Moss took the money. The transponder only works at close range, and he might have been found later, but that is a big maybe. Moss goes back to the scene and has to abandon his truck to escape. His truck gives away his identity and seals his fate. Moss goes back the second time to bring water to the wounded Mexican. He tells his wife, "I'm fixin to do something dumber than hell, but I'm going to do it anyway." He can't leave the man to die. He just can't do it. This is what gets him into the mess. This is also how he is different than the sheriff. The book ends with the sheriff telling a story of leaving his men behind to die in the heat of battle. There is more to it than this, of course. But in my mind, the money isn't what gets Moss killed, it's the moral code that he follows that won't allow him to leave a man to die. </font> I know you were expecting me to wax philosophical on why it's not about the money. But there is actually tangible evidence that it wasn't the money that got him into the mess. Of course it's just my opinion. I like talking about movies and books I enjoy, so keep asking away. To your point about none of the characters being smart enough to survive. This is a hallmark of all tragedies. I'm an intelligent person myself and I enjoy tragedies because they are full of brilliant people, good and bad, who will never reach a happy ending. Just makes for great art. [/ QUOTE ] GTL, (in white) <font color="white">If Moss doesn't go back to give water to the dying Mexican, he never gets seen. However, there is still the transponder in the satchel. It is the fact that he goes back and gets seen that allows him to last as long as he does. Otherwise, Chigurh just shows up unexpected and blasts him and his wife to hell. </font> [/ QUOTE ] Possible spoikers **** (Don't read this thread unless you've seen the movie, obvi) The transponder wouldn't work unless Anton gets close enough for it to pick up the signal. He doesn't get close enough for that unless he goes to the motel Moss is staying at. He doesn't find the motel unless he goes to Moss' place of residence and gets the phone records. He doesn't know where/who Moss is unless Moss drives back to give the mexican la agua. Also: I loved the movie, here's a semi-half-interesting movie with the Cohen brothers, Bardem and whoever played Moss http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=...h&plindex=0 (Charlie Rose makes a lot of mistakes in this)
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#76
11-23-2007, 03:08 AM
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Re: A Big Disappointment
Moss lived close by. Chigurh seems like the type to at least troll through the neighboring towns until that transponder hit. But, I could possibly be nitty here.
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#77
11-23-2007, 04:47 AM
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Re: A Big Disappointment
[ QUOTE ]
Moss lived close by. Chigurh seems like the type to at least troll through the neighboring towns until that transponder hit. But, I could possibly be nitty here. [/ QUOTE ] Moss didn't live that close by. It is unclear whether Chigurh would have found Moss via the transponder if Moss hadn't gone back to the scene. Moss wasn't just going to sit in his trailer with the satchel on top of his bed. He was leaving no matter what. However, this isn't that important. You don't need to be so rational here. The bottom line is, Moss' fate is sealed when Chigurh finds out his identity. Chigurh finds out Moss' identity because Moss went back to the scene to bring water to the Mexican. Both the Coen's and McCarthy are trying to make a thematic point here. The Coen's hinted at the importance of this in their Charlie Rose interview, and McCarthy highlights it in the book by comparing Moss to Bell (Bell left some of his men to die in WWII) It doesn't matter that Chigurh might have found him even if he didn't go back. He did go back, and that is why he died.
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#78
11-23-2007, 04:50 AM
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Re: Great film
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] And no, Anton didn't not kill Moss. The Mexicans who found out where Moss was going killed him in a big shootout and stole the money. In the book, though, Chigurh ends up with the money, so it's safe to assume he caught up with the Mexicans. [/ QUOTE ] I was under the impression Chigurh did get the money when he went back to the scene (they made it a point to mention the mexicans were in a rush and didn't have much time. Chigurgh's dime was on the floor near the vent; indicating he had opened the vent, where the money may or may not have been). [/ QUOTE ] this is what i thought happened in both the book and the movie. [/ QUOTE ] i was about to comment on this, and then you guys mentioned it. i'm just going to white out the rest of my post below. <font color="white">at first, i wasn't sure what went on in the motel room at the crime scene. it was a little unclear where in the room anton was when jones saw the movement through the door. i, too, thought maybe he was just behind the door the whole time. then, when jones enters the bathroom, they clearly focus on the window latch. at this point, i figured anton had escaped sometime after they showed him standing in the dark room and before jones cocked his gun and opened the door. after they show the window latch, jones goes back to the living room, looks down, and sees the dime and open vent. this is where moss hid the money, and i believe they showed it to say that anton got the money and escaped out the bathroom window. the stuff i list below i have no idea how people got: - anton killed moss - jones imagined seeing anton in the room - anton wasn't in the room jones was looking into - anton is like a ghost the stuff i do feel similarly about: - the car accident near the end, other than the similarities it - kind of - shows between moss and anton - the tie-in between the opening monologue and the closing dream (i felt like i was supposed to know who the person was in the second dream, but i didn't) and finally, did the office dude hire anton to find this money and subsequently hire woody when anton hadn't found it soon enough? that's what i got from the conversation that went something like this: dude: i figured having more tools on the job i'd get the money faster. anton: my philosophy is having the best tool for the job.</font> [/ QUOTE ] I've read the book twice, and I always get confused as to exactly who Chigurh is working for. I'm sure if I went back again I could sort it out. Next time I read it I will be doing that. In the book, Chigurh returns the money to someone (I believe it is the drug sellers) and creates a business relationship of sorts with them.
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#79
11-23-2007, 10:50 PM
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Re: Great film
GTL what are your thoughts on this(taken from comments section on blog in regards to Jones final speech)
"One of the things I most love about the end of the film is the ambiguity of Tommy Lee Jones' final monologue. I'm not referring to the film suddenly ending and some not understanding the point the film is making. Instead, I'm referring to the final line of dialogue that Sheriff Ed Tom Bell tells his wife about his second dream. "I continue to think long and hard about that final line. And I ask myself how I'm supposed to take that line coming from that man. "Is the story of the second dream supposed to provide a ray of hope, a sense of eventual contentment of a full life lived to its fullest being finally rewarded? Or am I supposed to take the final line as an admission that this kind of hope has been completely, irrevocably taken away? That the good sheriff had that dream of a hopeful place there in the dark, a warm place made by his father waiting for him out there in all that dark and all that cold. "And then I woke up". "And that the events he's recently seen have removed any possibility of that hope coming to pass?
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#80
11-23-2007, 11:52 PM
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Re: Great film
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Linear Mode
