Harrah's Makes Good Floor Decision?

[AquaSwing]

A couple of weeks ago I was at the Harrah's in St. Louis playing 1/2. I'm in the 6 seat, villain is at the 3 seat and button is on the 8 seat. I get dealt 99. A couple of limpers, including villain.

I make it 12 to go. All fold except villain who calls. Flop is AQ7 rainbow. Villain checks and I bet 25 to try and buy the pot. He calls. Turn is a 6. We both check. River is a 2. He checks.

Here's where it gets interesting. I table my hand face up and say, "I know you have me beat but I got nines." Dealer immediately mucks my hand and pushes pot to villain who still holds his cards but has not exposed them. He shows one card to his friend in the 4 seat and then mucks both cards. All this happened very quickly, like I had thrown my own cards into the muck. Dealer just did that for me!

While he is stacking the pot I tell the dealer she mucked my pair of nines and he mucked his hand so I should get the pot. The floor is called and the entire hand is described including admission from dealer that my exposed 99 was mucked by her and pot was pushed to person who mucked his hand. Villain and friend of villain confirm that he showed A to his friend and had my 99 beat.

At that point the floor says he'll be right back and I assume he's going to have the tape examined. He comes back 15 minutes later and issues me $40 which was about what I had invested in the hand. Villain keeps original pot.

By villains action of showing his buddy one card presumably it was an A and he had the best hand. In low limit action that's a typical move I've seen when opponent mucks. OTOH, my hand was the only hand that was exposed, so I won the hand. The dealer made a mistake by mucking my hand and apologized profusely and wasn't given another down at my table.

Was that a good ruling?

[Javanewt]

I'm no dealer, pro, expert, etc., but from what I've read here, you should have won the pot.

[psandman]

No this was not a good ruling. Though the dealer acted incorrectly you stood by and allowed the dealer to muck your hand (and didn't make any effort to protect your hand) then waited until the pot was pushed to the other player and the other player gave up his hand to dealer and then objected.

What the floor person did was invite you to take this shot again and again.

If the floor wanted to give you back $40 as some sort of goodwill gesture it should have been accompanied by a lecture that you failed to prtect your hand and that he is giving you this break this time, but you are responsible to protect your hand in the future.

It is apparent that the floorperson left you with the impression that you were entitled to the pot here when the opposite is true.

[daryn]

wow.. so horrible

[TMTTR]

It sounds like everyone gets a KITN on this hand. Dealer screwed up, you screwed up, your opponent screwed up and the floor screwed up.

[AquaSwing]

[ QUOTE ]
No this was not a good ruling. Though the dealer acted incorrectly you stood by and allowed the dealer to muck your hand (and didn't make any effort to protect your hand) then waited until the pot was pushed to the other player and the other player gave up his hand to dealer and then objected.

[/ QUOTE ]
Protect my exposed hand? I'm a bit confused. She mucked it the moment I turned it face up. I think she took a cue from me stating that all I had was nines and I was probably beat. In the couple seconds of me realizing that my hand should not have been mucked he had the pot. When I challenged it initially she disagreed and said I had mucked and when a couple others at the table disagreed she got that "Oh [censored]!" look on her face and that's when she called the floor.

[ QUOTE ]
What the floor person did was invite you to take this shot again and again.

[/ QUOTE ]
What shot is that? I am assuming you mean angle shot? I believe by turning my hand over after villain checks I am in a showdown for the pot. How is that an angle shot?

[ QUOTE ]
If the floor wanted to give you back $40 as some sort of goodwill gesture it should have been accompanied by a lecture that you failed to prtect your hand and that he is giving you this break this time, but you are responsible to protect your hand in the future.

[/ QUOTE ]
No sort of lecture. The whole time the dealer was admitting that she messed up. I think my big error was stating that I think I lost. What would have been different if I had just turned up my cards and not said anything?

[ QUOTE ]
It is apparent that the floorperson left you with the impression that you were entitled to the pot here when the opposite is true.

[/ QUOTE ]
I had the only hand that was face up. I was fully expecting the dealer to not muck my hand, the villain to show his Ax and the pot to be shoved to him. I strongly believe that he did have an A and had the showdown played out as it should I would have lost.

[quirkasaurus]

table hand -- protect it -- and don't say a darn thing

[pocketpared]

Dealer had a brain fart. They're human. Tape apparently was inconclusive. Floor returned your investment with house money, trying to be as fair as possible. There have been worse rulings. I never accept an opponents word on a dispute..they have a vested interest. I never accept an opponents friends word either. That's what the floor is for.

[TMTTR]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No this was not a good ruling. Though the dealer acted incorrectly you stood by and allowed the dealer to muck your hand (and didn't make any effort to protect your hand) then waited until the pot was pushed to the other player and the other player gave up his hand to dealer and then objected.

[/ QUOTE ]
Protect my exposed hand? I'm a bit confused. She mucked it the moment I turned it face up. I think she took a cue from me stating that all I had was nines and I was probably beat. In the couple seconds of me realizing that my hand should not have been mucked he had the pot. When I challenged it initially she disagreed and said I had mucked and when a couple others at the table disagreed she got that "Oh [censored]!" look on her face and that's when she called the floor.



[/ QUOTE ]

If the dealer was able to muck your hand, you failed to protect it. The cards should be close to you and you should still have your hand on them until the winner is determined and you are certain that the winner is not you.

Alternatively, in your situation (where I think I am beat on the river but I am not certain), I often announce "Pair of nines" or "pocket pair" or "any Ace is good" without turning over my hand. At that point, your opponent will either expose his hand (that beats you) or say that you are good -- you can then turn your cards over safely (in front of you, without relinquishing control).

[psandman]

[ QUOTE ]
Protect my exposed hand? I'm a bit confused. She mucked it the moment I turned it face up.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes protect it from her mucking it. Hold it speak up and say something.

[ QUOTE ]
I believe by turning my hand over after villain checks I am in a showdown for the pot. How is that an angle shot?

[/ QUOTE ]
The angle shot is that you didn't object until the pot was pushed and the other player relinquished his hand, now you wanted to win the pot without having to beat your opponent. if you spoke up right away your opponenet would still have his hand and you you would win if your hand was better than his.

[ QUOTE ]
The whole time the dealer was admitting that she messed up. I think my big error was stating that I think I lost. What would have been different if I had just turned up my cards and not said anything?

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course the dealer screwed up noone disputes that. Your stating thatyou lost may have confused the dealer, but your big error here wasn't that --it was letting the dealer muck your hand and push the pot without saying a word.

[ QUOTE ]
I had the only hand that was face up.

[/ QUOTE ]

No you didn't. Your hand was face down in the muck. And you let it get there without any objection.