$16 - TT bubble vs UTG raise

mattiesmat · #1 10-28-2007, 05:22 PM

(insta) shove? UTG was tight passive.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (4 handed) by Hand Converter CG

Button (t1285)
SB (t3500)
Hero (t3960)
UTG (t4755)

Preflop: Hero is BB with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to t600</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero ??

vers · #2 10-28-2007, 05:42 PM

shove looks fine unless he is like 15/1 over a large sample or something ridiculously passive. If that's the case, just defending/folding might be better.

bwiii · #3 10-28-2007, 09:37 PM

Easy lay down. You need QQ (which I would still fold) KK+ to call here. There is a huge difference between raising and calling at this point.

Crash0veride · #4 10-28-2007, 10:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Easy lay down. You need QQ (which I would still fold) KK+ to call here. There is a huge difference between raising and calling at this point.

[/ QUOTE ]
Joke?

chipsanddip · #5 10-28-2007, 10:39 PM

You should at least call. Since this player is tight, a raise is probably out of the question. He made a standard 3 bet raise to 600. Only cost you 400 to see a flop. You have a lot of chips and the 400 wont hurt you. Flop a set and you could double up. If the flop comes low and your afraid of higher overpair, check. If he is as tight as you said maybe he will check AK/AQ. Now you can bet the turn. If you fold preflop in this spot you might be playing to passive.

mattiesmat · #6 10-28-2007, 10:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You should at least call. Since this player is tight, a raise is probably out of the question. He made a standard 3 bet raise to 600. Only cost you 400 to see a flop. You have a lot of chips and the 400 wont hurt you. Flop a set and you could double up. If the flop comes low and your afraid of higher overpair, check. If he is as tight as you said maybe he will check AK/AQ. Now you can bet the turn. If you fold preflop in this spot you might be playing to passive.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you realy think he would raise preflop, then not c-bet after a call preflop and check on the flop?
I don't like flatting, because we are OOP and we do not quite get the odds to play for set value.

Those first comments seem to contradict each other.
How would other players play this?

bwiii · #7 10-29-2007, 12:46 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Easy lay down. You need QQ (which I would still fold) KK+ to call here. There is a huge difference between raising and calling at this point.

[/ QUOTE ]
Joke?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not a joke at all. A call is okay. Just not my style. Why would you mess with the big stack at this point?

#8 10-29-2007, 01:03 AM

to increase expectation?

ughh shoving here isn't my favorite spot, and definantely wouldn't against some players. but to an unknown who hasn't been a [censored] calling station. It's not a bad spot to push. QQ+ is obviously not a great line for maximising ev.

that said I think 88 is a clear fold. 99/10's are read dependant.

bwiii · #9 10-29-2007, 02:19 AM

If you're multi-tabling the point is moot. It's one of those siutations, just make a move and don't look back.

taipan168 · #10 10-29-2007, 02:21 AM

Against a tight/passive big stack raising from UTG with the short stack having only 6x BB, I would actually muck this one. You have really good fold equity but you lose a ton of $ equity if he makes a horrible call with AK/AQ/AJ or the like, plus a tight passive raising from UTG might well have you dominated.

Don't like calling either because we are OOP postflop, what's our plan on the flop? If we lead an all undercard flop are we calling if opp shoves over? If overcards come do we c/f to opp's c-bet?