Harrah's Makes Good Floor Decision?

[wakanohana]

Given the circumstances, the floor made the right decision.

Dealer made the mistake of mucking the OP's hand and pushes pot in one motion, as soon as pot is in front of villain he flashes his hand to his neighbor and mucks in one motion. OP's says WTF! All the above could of happened in less than 3 seconds. So given the set of unusual circumstances, the floor made the right decision IMO.

Obviously, if OP bets $75 on turn, he wins a small pot and moves onto the next hand.

[juanez]

[ QUOTE ]
who tables their hand and keeps their hand on the cards?

[/ QUOTE ]

Me. Every time.

I'm so tired of lecturing guys about how their cards would never be mucked if they just turned them over and protected them instead of throwing them across the table, or spiking them so one flies off the table, etc.

It's sooooo easy. Turn cards over...place a finger on them. When pot is pushed, release finger. Not so hard. And many-a-floor call would be avoided if we all did this.

Poker 101. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[Al_Capone_Junior]

It wasn't the worst ruling but it wasn't great either.


The real mistake made here was that you let go of your cards before they pushed you the money. Although you probably should have lost anyway to a pair of aces, since you tabled your hand in turn, both your opponent's hole cards needed to be shown for him to take down the pot. The dealer needs a good kick in the nuts for killing your hand, you need one for letting go of your cards, and your opponent needs one for not showing his hand to everyone. Basically nut-kickings all around are in order.


Why the floor refunded you anything is beyond me. If you just screwed up and didn't protect your hand, that's not on the establishment. If you lost to a better hand, again, no refund in order. So I'd say you got out of a nut-kicking and got $40 so you definitely got the best of the deal on this one.


Al

[youtalkfunny]

[ QUOTE ]
I reiterate my motion to put up a sticky with the title, "Hang on to your cards until you get the money!", because we can't go a day or two without a thread like this one.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, no sticky needed. I'll just hang one of these on each similar thread.

[ijustliketoplay]

so the floor puts an extra $40 on the table and people complain?! so nitty....

[RR]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
who tables their hand and keeps their hand on the cards?

[/ QUOTE ]

Me. Every time.

I'm so tired of lecturing guys about how their cards would never be mucked if they just turned them over and protected them instead of throwing them across the table, or spiking them so one flies off the table, etc.

It's sooooo easy. Turn cards over...place a finger on them. When pot is pushed, release finger. Not so hard. And many-a-floor call would be avoided if we all did this.

Poker 101. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

You live in a place where the cards released more often than they should be because of this pulling them into the middle business.

[amead]

This whole "protect your hand" thing is starting to get a bit out of hand. It's turning into SSNL's version of "raise more preflop". Sure, hold onto your cards until they have to pry them out of your cold, dead fingers, and scream FLOOOOOOOOOOOOOR at the top of your lungs the second that you see the dealer start moving to your cards.

I think the floor's decision here was pretty decent.

I don't think that it is fair to blame any player for tabling their hand at showdown, and having the dealer muck them before the other players in the showdown have showed a card. When I turn my cards over in front of my stack at showdown, I feel that it is reasonable to expect that they are not stolen by the dealer, same as I feel it's reasonable to expect that my opponent won't grab them and light them on fire.

OP does NOT deserve a kick in the nuts, a lecture, or anything else. The dealer made a pretty terrible mistake. Sure, they are human, but I mean, is it really too much to expect that they do their job properly? I'd certainly never advocate firing them on the spot or belittling them for a mistake, but I mean, shouldn't the casino have the responsibility to protect their players from aggregious mistakes when they've done nothing wrong?

When you table your hand, it is tabled. Sure, OP could have pulled out a shotgun and blown the dealers head off when he tried to touch his cards, but blaming him for not doing so is terrible.

Let's also not forget that everyone at your table isn't a 20-year veteran of B&M cards, especially at 1/2NL. Sitting at a table full of strangers can be pretty intimidating, and it is completely reasonable for a player to take a second to collect their thoughts before screaming for the floor and disrupting the game. Is it "right" that the player feel intimidated or apprehensive about making a scene in public? Probably not, but I'd think that long-time players should be happy to have new faces in the game, rather than have them berated and lectured when they could much more easily play on FTP instead.

I fully believe that you should take every reasonable step to protect your cards during the play of a hand. I also feel that capping them with a chip or similar is enough to fulfill this obligation. If the dealer pulls my cards out from under my cap and mucks them, it's not my fault.

When I turn my hand over at showdown, I should have the expectation that, if they are the best cards shown, I will win the pot. If I get screwed, I should be compensated somehow (or feel free to take my business elsewhere, I suppose). We, the players, are paying the rake to ensure that we can play in a safe, fair way. If we can't trust dealers to perform the most basic, essential service well (judging of the highest ranking hand at showdown), what does that say about the state of live poker?

All of these "protect your hand" stories add up to imply one thing to me - dealers muck the wrong cards a LOT. Why is this? Carelessness stemming from the monotony of the job? Human error commited because of fundamental lack of intelligence across the dealing population (I highly doubt this)? Complacency because they feel they are not compensated fairly enough to compel their full attention? It seems obvious that a competant dealer that takes their time and focuses hyper intently on the game would not make this simple mistake. How can we ensure that each hand is moderated by someone commited to this level of focus?

Yes, the moral of the story is to protect your cards so you don't get screwed. But why does it seem that poker players are put in a position to be screwed so routinely?

A previous poster made a great point re: mugging. I'm played announcements on the subway from time to time that advise me to protect my valuables against pickpockets. If I strapped my cash inside a chastity belt, I'd protect myself from being made the victim of theft. But if someone steals my wallet, it's still NOT MY FAULT. Blame the person who screwed up, not the victim of a terrible, careless mistake.

[TMTTR]

Wow that was an unnecessarily long post. Dealers make mistake. Dealers even make mistakes when all hands are shown. Protecting your hand until the pot is properly award is not difficult.

[amead]

Just because something is easy does not make it right.

How about some desire to fix an obvious problem's root cause, rather than duct taping a solution that requires _some_ amount of effort being exerted by a party that isn't responsible for doing so.

[RR]

[ QUOTE ]
Just because something is easy does not make it right.

How about some desire to fix an obvious problem's root cause, rather than duct taping a solution that requires _some_ amount of effort being exerted by a party that isn't responsible for doing so.

[/ QUOTE ]

A player is responsible for protecting their own hand.