Sweating Cards = Dead Hand?

[psandman]

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Multiple people in one hand = dead hand.

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This is absurd. This would mean that if we are playing and you are facing a bet and thinkiing about what to do any player at the table could kill your hand simply by making a statement like "you have to call look at the size of the pot," or "obviously he has the straight."

The rule is one player to a hand but the remedy to a rule infraction is not always to kill a hand.

[JazzyZ]

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Multiple people in one hand = dead hand.

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This is absurd. This would mean that if we are playing and you are facing a bet and thinkiing about what to do any player at the table could kill your hand simply by making a statement like "you have to call look at the size of the pot," or "obviously he has the straight."

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No, only if t he player who was still in the hand SHOWED his cards first to this player. Geez... You cant show your cards to another player to get advice from him, you have to play your hands yourself. Should be obvious...

This kind of crap is exactly why I made a clear houserule in my own game, any kind of flashing your cards during a hand -> dead hand.

[Peleus]

I'd vote it being a dead hand under the one player to a hand rule.

Simple fact is that the player showed his cards to another, recieved a comment about the cards, and went on to play the hand. If that isn't two players to a hand what is?

How can you then start making judgements over how much information they give as to if it was two players in the hand. Once you start down that route you're going to find different interpretations of things start leading to different amounts of help etc, a slipery slope.

Simply make it if another player comments on you're hand once you show them, you're hand is dead. Its you're reponsibility to protect you're cards.

[psandman]

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I'd vote it being a dead hand under the one player to a hand rule.

Simple fact is that the player showed his cards to another, recieved a comment about the cards, and went on to play the hand. If that isn't two players to a hand what is?

How can you then start making judgements over how much information they give as to if it was two players in the hand. Once you start down that route you're going to find different interpretations of things start leading to different amounts of help etc, a slipery slope.

Simply make it if another player comments on you're hand once you show them, you're hand is dead. Its you're reponsibility to protect you're cards.

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This where i have a problem. Violation of One player to a hand does not require that the cards be shown, you can violate the rules without the cards being shown. And typically when a player flashes his cards to a neighbor not in the hand he is not seeking input from that player.

Poker is not about killing hands for rules infractions. There are other ways to enforce the rules without killing hands.

[FireStorm]

Tell host not to shove air when he's laying the preflop raiser almost 2.5-1 on a call.

[jeffnc]

[ QUOTE ]
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Multiple people in one hand = dead hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is absurd. This would mean that if we are playing and you are facing a bet and thinkiing about what to do any player at the table could kill your hand simply by making a statement like "you have to call look at the size of the pot," or "obviously he has the straight."

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No, this is different. The player intentionally showed his cards to another player.

The simplest rule would simply be that you can't do that. If you show your cards to ANYONE while the hand is live, you lose.

If someone tells you what to do without seeing your cards, that's a different problem. It should be penalized somehow, but it's not clear how, and it's probably too late anyway for the loser of the hand.

[Taso]

psandman is telling you guys what the actual ruling would be, in a casino. Someone comemnting on your hand does not kill it, this would lead to so much angle shooting it'd be crazy.

I didn't think there'd be a debate about this at all, it's obvious the host was extremly, extremly wrong.

[psandman]

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psandman is telling you guys what the actual ruling would be, in a casino. Someone comemnting on your hand does not kill it, this would lead to so much angle shooting it'd be crazy.

I didn't think there'd be a debate about this at all, it's obvious the host was extremly, extremly wrong.

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Its not just what the ruling in a casino would be.

More importantly I'm trying to lure some of you over to the idea that killing hands isn't the goal of running a poker game and that there are better options for enforcing rules. In fact in a home game you may have some penalties available that couldn't be invoked in a casino.

"Bob, we have warned you before about (insert offense here] you have continued to do it anyway. A warning is no longer sufficient. No where not going to kick you out of the game this time, but your punishment is that you have to bring a case of beer next week (or pay for the pizza, or drive to taco bell, or carry all the poker games trash out to the dumpster, or you have to be designated dealer for the next tournament).

Now in e games some of these things may not be deterents and ultimately you may need to disinvite a player, but the point is that there are penalties that don't kill hands which are available to dissuade violations of rules.

[JazzyZ]

And how would you punish the outside player who was commenting about the hand? Tell him to stop? Lol... What about the player who showed his hand? If I was the the bettor in this hand I would be damn pissed off. In our local casino your hand is immediatelly dead if you intentionally show it to someone, otherwise it would be like a game of group-solitaire especially weekends...

[psandman]

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And how would you punish the outside player who was commenting about the hand? Tell him to stop? Lol...

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Throw him out. Sir I'm sorry you will have to leave. It might be appropriate to give a warning first depending on the exact nature of the offense. In a home game sitruation the ultimate penalty of course is to uninvite the player from future games.