Developing reads for dummies

[RemyXO]

The skill of getting and using reads against your opponents is of paramount importance in poker. Once single reads that saves or earns you just one big bet per hour can double your earn rate for the session! Yet most of the posts here start with "No reads on villain". Sometimes he's new at the table or there are really no reads, but I suspect that most of the time people don't bother to follow the hands and detect patterns in villains' play. Or they just don't know how to.

In this thread, I would like you to share you rexperience in getting reads at the table (beyond PT stats). Please, answer the followiing, and add more information that you think is helpful:

(1) What are you looking for during the hand progress?
(2) How do you document your findings?
(3) Have you developed a nice shorthand notation for notes on villain?
(4) When do you feel that a ceratin read is solid?
(5) How do you classify your opponents? Standard two-dimensional tight/loose aggro/passive, or more elaborate?
(6) What are the KEY moves that you should observe that will potentially save/earn you money? (E.g. does turn C/R from tis villain ALWAYS mean the nuts?)


Pooh-Bahs, the stage is yours!

[Low Limit Loser]

I ain't no pooh-bah but i'll throw out a few.

I initially took horrible notes. Most times it would be

FISH
DONKEY
IDIOT
2+2er
Sometimes I'd use adjectives "&^%^$# DONKEY!!!!!!"

When I started playing SH I took better notes. The things I seemed to get the most out of were things like this.

Value Bet this guy!!!!
Call down this guy!!!!
Makes plays at paired boards
C/R's better hands HU (So I'd raise if he bet a flop)
Can Bet/Fold
Won't Fold
Fires third Barrell
Bluffs rivers
Doesn't give free cards


If I think of more, I'll post them

[Buckmulligan]

my most commonly useful notes include:

won't get out of hand with just a pair.
won't bet MP or LP in obvious spots.
cold calls said hands preflop.

The former two are important because they tend to make close call down situations much easier.

[halpgr]

For myself, I like to pull up the instant hand history, and get notes on what people are losing with. That's something I find I can exploit later in hands I'm involved with.

I really want to see the hand history when there has been a raise on the turn or river. Those hands are a big opportunity to either maximize your wins or losses in a session. So I want to see what people are raising late streets with and then losing.

For example one time I had Kxs in the BB or SB. On the river I got the flush and led into a crowd. This is nano stakes, bad players. Anyway I got raised. From earlier I had a note that this villian would raise a T high flush. So I figured the chance he had a non A flush was a lot higher than the chance of the nut flush. So I 3bet him. He called of course and lost with the flush Qxs. With a read I was able to win an extra BB on this hand where without it I might have played it safe and just called the river raise.

With the bad players I play against, I'll see people raising straights on 3 flush boards, raising flushes on paired boards, raising weak full houses. Having a read on those players can make the late streets extra profitable when I have a strong hand.

[MrWookie]

Link for you:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...Number=2883094

[RemyXO]

[ QUOTE ]
Link for you:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...Number=2883094

[/ QUOTE ]

Dang, I did a search before I posted this topic, but I only looked back 9 or 12 months. Can we add that one to micros FAQ section in the miscellaneous links?

Gracias, Wookie!

[DakotaKid]

[ QUOTE ]
(1) What are you looking for during the hand progress?

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been playing for just a short while where I've been taking it seriously enough to really put forth effort for note-taking. I generally two-table 1/2 at WPEX and really concentrate on one table for notes and play relatively read-less poker on the other, unless something really shows up as notable.

I pay closest attention to people's open-raising standards and similarly cold-calling standards with respect to position, and especially in blind steal/defense situations.

On later streets I'll note when people don't c'bet, especially if they c/c flop then bet or raise turn. Also what people are willing to call down with when it's clear they're beat.

As for times you don't see showdown, I look for either too much limping, too much raising, or too much cold-calling.

[ QUOTE ]
(2) How do you document your findings?

[/ QUOTE ]

Right now I just put as detailed a note I can in the supplied note field. I've found the .txt file that stores this info, so down the road it'll be easy to review them and add my custom shorthand. An example of a note right now would be "3-bet UTG raiser in MP with ATo, raised Kxx flop and called down UI."

My goal is to get a system to shorten this down (there have been some good posts on this in the past, Here's one )

[ QUOTE ]
(3) Have you developed a nice shorthand notation for notes on villain?

[/ QUOTE ]

See above

[ QUOTE ]
(4) When do you feel that a ceratin read is solid?

[/ QUOTE ]

Once I see a read that someone does something really wrong, I'll use that info until proven otherwise.

[ QUOTE ]
(5) How do you classify your opponents? Standard two-dimensional tight/loose aggro/passive, or more elaborate?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not that sophisticated yet, but I plan on modeling my system on the guidelines in the link above.

[ QUOTE ]
(6) What are the KEY moves that you should observe that will potentially save/earn you money? (E.g. does turn C/R from tis villain ALWAYS mean the nuts?)

[/ QUOTE ]

Limp re-raise standards, passive turning aggressive on blank turns. Another big one on WPEX I've noticed is that many (relative to what I remember on Party anyway) are capped pf with more than two players. I pay very close attention to what people will either 3-bet then call cap with, raise then cap with, and call more than one bet cold with. These are very helpful to see someone who routinely goes into capped pots with middle pairs or weak A's vs those who always show strong hands (AK+). Many many value bets can be taken from the guy who hit TPTK with AT on Txx board when you've got JJ vs saving bets (if not folding, at least not putting in extra raises) in the same case vs one of the AK+ guys.

[train.]

[ QUOTE ]
Link for you:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...Number=2883094

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm sure this was the catalyst for getting this post bumped and I thank you. I was half way through reading it before I realized it was over a year old. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] good stuff in there.

Remy, I'm sure it's been said before and does nothing to answer your question, but that's why most hands get posted...because the poster had "No reads on villain". and was confused about the hand. With reads, the play becomes much easier as thus less likely to be posted for advice.


That said, I suck at getting reads and need all the help I can get. I usually make notes on my opponents but I don't feel that I use them efficiently. I usually feel like I'm playing from the 'seat of my pants' which may be subconsciously read based, but I doubt it.

[johno]

Have you seen this post about noting reads on the fly, and using a shorthand system?

Nomadtla post