Introduction to Five Tools Analysis: Hitting

[kyleb]

Here's a vomit-worthy swing:

[Myrtle]

Kyle,

Good start!

What you're trying to do here is VERY admirable and I fully support it.

What I'm concerned with is that once you get down to analyzing each of the tools at the detail level that they must be discussed at, is that instead of intelligent discussion you will encounter disagreement that is based upon either uninformed or incomplete opinion and information.

Be prepared to be patient and do your best to explain (not defend) the principles that you will have to put forth in order to give those who truly want to ratchet up their knowledge about the mechanical fundamentals necessary to excel at the game.

Good Luck!

[Assani Fisher]

Gotta give it to you, this is pretty cool stuff. Questions for you....

In basketball there are some guys who have terrible form yet still for whatever reason can succeed(Shawn Marion's jumpshot is the best and most well known example that I can think of from today's game). Which baseball players(if any) have very basic fundamental errors in their swings yet can still succeed and what is it about them that lets them succeed despite this?


If you had to pick one baseball player that had a textbook swing who would it be? I don't know baseball that well but I've always thought Griffey's swing looked very effortless and picture perfect.


You mentioned two types of hitting "tools" in average and power. You then mentioned a bunch of good qualities scouts look for and a bunch of common mistakes. Of the good qualities which ones are more likely to produce power and which ones are more likely to produce average. Conversely with the common mistakes which ones will hinder average and which will hinder power? Or is this being too simplistic of a viewpoint?


I swear I really don't mean to imply anything about steroid by this last question.....how much does overall strength in your opinion help a hitter hit for power(or average I guess since "average" by your definition means hitting the ball hard consistently)?

[kyleb]

Assani,

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Which baseball players(if any) have very basic fundamental errors in their swings yet can still succeed and what is it about them that lets them succeed despite this?

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There is a perfect answer for you, actually: Barry Bonds. He has a severe hitch in his swing (just like Hunter Pence's poor swing above, where he drops his hands before loading his back leg and bat) but is quite obviously one of the best hitters of all time.

See if you can spot it:



EDIT: He succeeds in spite of this flaw because he has ungodly plate discipline, amongst other traits.

[ QUOTE ]
If you had to pick one baseball player that had a textbook swing who would it be?

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Joe Mauer or Albert Pujols. Ken Griffey Jr. is a good choice as well and embodies the classic power stroke.

Mauer just has a sweet smooth line-drive-heavy swing that generates good backspin. It is simple, repeatable, and effective. It is for these reasons I use him as the template for my students.



[ QUOTE ]
Of the good qualities which ones are more likely to produce power and which ones are more likely to produce average. Conversely with the common mistakes which ones will hinder average and which will hinder power? Or is this being too simplistic of a viewpoint?

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While it is simplistic, there are strong correlations between certain traits that scouts look for. The ability to consistently center the ball will lead to higher batting averages, the ability to put backspin/loft on the ball will increase fly ball rates and hopefully power if the swing is good, and plate discipline will increase on-base percentage through walks and should also increase BOTH average or power (since you are hitting only pitcher mistakes or tough pitches with 2 strikes only).

EDIT: Pretty much all swing flaws will hinder both power and average equally, though poor weight transfer will hurt power more than average.

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I swear I really don't mean to imply anything about steroid by this last question.....how much does overall strength in your opinion help a hitter hit for power(or average I guess since "average" by your definition means hitting the ball hard consistently)?

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It all comes down to the simple force formula: Force = Mass * Acceleration. Swing mechanics are responsible for the vast majority of the ability to deliver the barrel of the bat at high speeds, and it has been shown that heavier bats only produce greater distance if the velocity is kept at a high rate; obviously mass of the bat and bat speed are inversely correlated and as such heavier equipment isn't necessarily better.

I get that out of the way because the answer to your question is "it depends." Core strength is the majority of what is important in swinging a baseball bat (or a golf club, or punching someone) and it can be developed by traditional strength training. The key factor is increasing bat speed - the faster we swing the bat, the more kinetic energy we put into the ball at the point of contact. We need only look to the 1988-1991 Oakland Athletics and their revolutionary training techniques, giving way to sluggers like McGwire and Canseco, to show that strength training does work.

Strength training works in a few ways:

1) Greater lean body mass allows for faster bat speed and thusly more power in our swing.
2) Greater lean body mass as developed by compound lifts (squats, deadlifts, cleans, etc) will increase stabilizer muscles and help the hitter to "stay connected" (no bat drag, ability to maintain a perfect swing for longer periods of time) in the swing, leading to less mishits.
3) Faster bat speed not only accounts for more power, but it allows the hitter to wait on a pitch a fraction of a second longer, giving him a big advantage.

[wh1t3bread]

I like this thread. Please continue.

[bosoxfan]

My daughter just started with a hitting coach for softball. The focus has been on back leg load and push. This really helps me understand what she is talking about thnak you for posting this.

[DesertCat]

Why is hitting for average a tool and controlling the plate for high OBP not? OBP >>> BA.

For example, Mark McGwire's career BA was .263 vs. a league adjusted average of .262. But his career OBP was .394 vs. a league adjusted average of .332. Was he an average hitter?

[tdarko]

[ QUOTE ]
-Bat drag: The elbows lead the bat into the zone. This causes a late bat and saps power; hitters with significant bat drag will never be able to hit 85+ MPH fastballs and will not hit for power.

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This is the one move every great hitter makes, he leads with the front elbow--the worst thing you can teach is to tell a hitter to throw is hands at the ball or to throw the knob at the ball b/c that doesn't get you into a slot. This would be much easier if I were in person oh well.

Leading with the elbow puts the bat in a lag position which you said it makes it drag which isn't right. It also locks the back elbow into the ribs--the power position mentioned like in the bonds picture. The barrel moves at a rate at something like 9 or 10 times faster than your hands do--so obv you want your barrel to move the greater distance than your hands. When you lead with the elbow, your hands are at about your chest and the barrel is still back behind you. Now, the ball is right in front of the plate--upon swing/impact your hands only move 4 or 5 inches to the ball at this point whereas that barrel moves 2 feet or so--but we want this b/c it is moving at a much much faster rate than your hands, THIS is how you create power. That is bat release, if you don't lead with the elbow--which every single hitter in each video did--then you can't release the barrel through the zone and you lose a ton of power, instead your hands are swinging the barrel through the zone which is slower and less powerful not to mention incorrect directionally much of the time.

Watch big league hitters take a pitch, they are starting their swings even though they take but every time they lead w/ that elbow, their hips and elbow attack and then stop...b/c what was coming next was the rotation and the bat release. This would be a lot easier in person, it is hard to discuss over a message board--it is hands on stuff as you know.

Another thing leading w/ the elbow does is what I learned in a big league camp--it is called "hitting in a big zone." You are told all your life to "swing down on the ball" etc., but what happens is that when you swing down on the ball the barrel is only in the zone for a split second--at contact, so you have to "time" the pitch perfectly and we all know how tough that is. When you lead w/ the elbow and the bat lags the barrel drops into the hitting zone immediately and stays in the hitting zone upon the instant of bat release all the way through hand break when the ball is long gone from the equation. This made immediate sense to me b/c I could remember seeing some of the great hitters looking like they were completely beat on a great fastball and they drove it the other way in the gap--and it was b/c their barrel was in the hitting zone--they were way late timing the pitcher but their swing was great which allowed them to get a hit.

Good thread Kyle. I have to get to a game, I will check this thread later.

[kyleb]

tdarko,

Sorry; I meant to clarify that you don't want the REAR elbow ahead of the hands. You definitely want the lead elbow out.

[Troll_Inc]

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I like this thread. Please continue.

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100% continue. I don't even know why bother with a poll.

Excellent content, way better than this site probably deserves.

Anyone who voted "no" is a tard.