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#1
11-08-2007, 03:07 PM
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JC Tran Controversy at Foxwoods
Very interesting...check it out:
http://www.cardplayer.com/tv/29329 I can't believe what I just saw the dealer do. Is that procedure in most major circuit tournaments? I know that the all-in player most flip over his hand to protect against collusion but it should at least be ruled dead. 
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#2
11-08-2007, 03:26 PM
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Re: JC Tran Controversy at Foxwoods
[ QUOTE ]
Very interesting...check it out: http://www.cardplayer.com/tv/29329 I can't believe what I just saw the dealer do. Is that procedure in most major circuit tournaments? I know that the all-in player most flip over his hand to protect against collusion but it should at least be ruled dead. [/ QUOTE ] Anyone that thinks this hand is dead does not understand tournament rules and procedures. The dealer should have called for the floor first, but you cannot muck when a player is all in. I am glad Mike Ward has it exactly right.
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#4
11-10-2007, 04:29 PM
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Re: JC Tran Controversy at Foxwoods
The intent of the rule is to prevent chip dumping in which a player would muck a BETTER hand to someone during an all-in. Otherwise someone could hold their cards unseen, wait for the dealer to deal the entire board, and then muck a winner in order to dump chips.
also the player was a total douche for trying to claim he tabled his cards. One cannot determine what is a chip dump and what is a badly timed steal; and that is not the point of the rule
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#5
11-10-2007, 05:02 PM
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Re: JC Tran Controversy at Foxwoods
lol
The hand doesnt have to be a better hand to chip dump.... In the spot we saw, what he's holding is immaterial if he is trying to dump chips.... He couls muck any hand and be sure to give the chips away
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#6
11-08-2007, 03:26 PM
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Re: JC Tran Controversy at Foxwoods
[ QUOTE ]
Very interesting...check it out: http://www.cardplayer.com/tv/29329 I can't believe what I just saw the dealer do. Is that procedure in most major circuit tournaments? I know that the all-in player most flip over his hand to protect against collusion but it should at least be ruled dead. [/ QUOTE ] It was the right decision, when heads up and all-in cards must be turned face up. I saw the clip and even though it WAS obvious the guy was stupidly trying to fold the ruling was correct. Matt Savage
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#7
11-08-2007, 05:24 PM
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Re: JC Tran Controversy at Foxwoods
Matt, given the video evidence of what happened. I know it was a correct "ruling" given the current guidelines. However, can you honestly tell me you think this is the most REASONABLE action, given the circumstances? If so, please explain how this is the most viable option.
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#8
11-08-2007, 05:33 PM
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Re: JC Tran Controversy at Foxwoods
[ QUOTE ]
Matt, given the video evidence of what happened. I know it was a correct "ruling" given the current guidelines. However, can you honestly tell me you think this is the most REASONABLE action, given the circumstances? If so, please explain how this is the most viable option. [/ QUOTE ] Quite simply it is the rule, TDA Rule #9 states "All cards will be turned face up once a player is all-in and all betting action is complete." The dealer did his job by opening his hand. I totally agree this guy was trying to muck his hand and tried to say he was tying to turn it up. If JC would have one this hand it would have been mistake. Matt
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#9
11-08-2007, 06:56 PM
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Re: JC Tran Controversy at Foxwoods
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Matt, given the video evidence of what happened. I know it was a correct "ruling" given the current guidelines. However, can you honestly tell me you think this is the most REASONABLE action, given the circumstances? If so, please explain how this is the most viable option. [/ QUOTE ] Quite simply it is the rule, TDA Rule #9 states "All cards will be turned face up once a player is all-in and all betting action is complete." The dealer did his job by opening his hand. I totally agree this guy was trying to muck his hand and tried to say he was tying to turn it up. If JC would have one this hand it would have been mistake. Matt [/ QUOTE ] I have the feeling you would rather not answer the question, but just in case you missed it...Do you agree that the rule itself, which has been stated as fact to be enforced to deter collusion, is more valuable than allowing hands to be pulled from the muck that were intentionally folded allowing a player to awkwardly pull back their cards and push their chips forward, as he is obviously reversing a mistake he has made?
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#10
11-08-2007, 07:28 PM
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Re: JC Tran Controversy at Foxwoods
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Matt, given the video evidence of what happened. I know it was a correct "ruling" given the current guidelines. However, can you honestly tell me you think this is the most REASONABLE action, given the circumstances? If so, please explain how this is the most viable option. [/ QUOTE ] Quite simply it is the rule, TDA Rule #9 states "All cards will be turned face up once a player is all-in and all betting action is complete." The dealer did his job by opening his hand. I totally agree this guy was trying to muck his hand and tried to say he was tying to turn it up. If JC would have one this hand it would have been mistake. Matt [/ QUOTE ] I have the feeling you would rather not answer the question, but just in case you missed it...Do you agree that the rule itself, which has been stated as fact to be enforced to deter collusion, is more valuable than allowing hands to be pulled from the muck that were intentionally folded allowing a player to awkwardly pull back their cards and push their chips forward, as he is obviously reversing a mistake he has made? [/ QUOTE ] So let me get it straight, on a called all-in bet with NO MORE ACTION you think it is OK for the worst hand to win? Matt
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