Underhanded Tactic Used in a 10/20 NL game, Please Discuss.

[LucidDream]

WOW...this might be the first time I have ever seriously gotten pissed reading a story on the internet. I truly hope very bad things happen to you in life...like say your brakes not working on the highway.

[Nick Rivers]

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And the fact that you tried a gangsta "I'm all 'bout the money" defense when you only play 10/20 frankly makes it even worse.

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10/20 NL is sometimes the biggest game in town, and I'm not enough of a balla yet to have a private jet to fly me around the world to catch all of the best 25/50+ games as they're going down, and I'm definitely not skilled enough to beat the nosebleed stakes games online. I'm just out there trying to make that loot in whatever game I can beat.

[Nick Rivers]

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Also, it might occur to you that being an ass isn't a very good long-term strategy. There are plenty of regs that you'll have to play with. If you are better then them, it's better for you if they don't hate you.

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Is it? That's conventional wisdom, but is it true? Is it better to be liked or reviled by the other skilled players in the poker room? What is your evidence for thinking it's better not to be hated?

[FishSticks]

Well if your goal is to make everyone hate you and think you're a huge d-bag, you're certainly on the right track.

[Oki-Oki]

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and the boot smashing your face into it will make you think twice about doing it again. You will also be getting about what you deserve.

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Uh yeah do this at the wrong table or to the wrong person and your gonna get [censored] up. I know that sounds like an over-reaction but in all honesty if you continue this you deserve it.

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If you did this to me I wouldnt say a word, but make sure I follow you into the parking lot for a discussion. Or the bathroom. Somewhere where there's no cameras.

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I really appreciate all of the internet tough-guyism coming out in this thread, but I have yet to have my ass kicked by a poker player and I don't think it's ever going to happen. Would I pull this move if Floyd Mayweather Jr. were the villain? No, of course not. Would I pull this move if some poker geek with a math degree who complains about girl troubles on BBV4Life were the villain? You bet.

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Honestly I wasnt going for the internet tough guy approach, but I have played in some games with some pretty rough ppl. And I was just commenting that if you continue this behaviour the wrong person might just take offence.

I dont necessarily believe that this would happen to you but you have to admit that there is atleast a chance of it happening. And if it does, you deserve it was my point.

[Oki-Oki]

And also this is cheating it violates the one player to a hand rule. As you are offering your insight which unfairly influences a players action.

[Nick Rivers]

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one player to a hand. this is not merely etiquette. you have knowledge of information the other players do not possess, so you are not allowed to influence the play of a hand you're not involved in. this should not be difficult to understand.

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This is an interesting point, and perhaps one that deserves further consideration. You say I used information not available to everyone (good luck proving that a tell is not available to everyone, or that it constitutes information in the legal sense) to influence a hand I was not a part of. Suppose I was still in the hand? I have information not readily available to others in every hand I'm in, my cards. Suppose I have a monster hand and I want him to call and I say, "you should call." That wouldn't be cheating, would it? It would just be manipulation. Suppose I was going to fold and I say, "you should call." In either case, is this really anything more than using table talk to manipulate an opponent?

[SEABEAST]

yeah it's +ev but it makes you a scumbag. if you hate everyone you play with then maybe its worth it but pull this kind of move at a private game and youll get pummelled. anyway if its "all about the money" why the [censored] are you playing live? maybe just multitable a game 1/4 as big and make more money and not have to resort to tempting people to beat the [censored] out of you?

[Nick Rivers]

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Honestly I wasnt going for the internet tough guy approach, but I have played in some games with some pretty rough ppl. And I was just commenting that if you continue this behaviour the wrong person might just take offence.

I dont necessarily believe that this would happen to you but you have to admit that there is atleast a chance of it happening. And if it does, you deserve it was my point.

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Poker is a game of calculated risks. This includes the play of the cards as well as the metagame. But, that said, thank you for looking out for my well-being by pointing out this violent possibilty to me.

[Nick Rivers]

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yeah it's +ev but it makes you a scumbag. if you hate everyone you play with then maybe its worth it but pull this kind of move at a private game and youll get pummelled. anyway if its "all about the money" why the [censored] are you playing live? maybe just multitable a game 1/4 as big and make more money and not have to resort to tempting people to beat the [censored] out of you?

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Yeah, I barely ever play live. About 95% of my EV comes from online play, where I almost never chat, much less take shots like this. I guess I do have a particular dislike for most live players, because they're annoying, and the slow pace of the game makes their repugnant personalities readily apparent as they chatter away during the shuffling and dealing, whereas online, I'm playing too many windows, too fast to get involved with much discussion.

But, this is all beside the point. The point is always EV maximization, and sometimes I'm sitting at a live table for whatever reason, and I'm stuck playing there. So I take shots to help make up for the slow pace of the game.