Two 1-2 NL Hands vs. Unknowns at FTP

[Nick Rivers]

Hand One: Hero and villain both have full stacks.

PF: Folded around to villain on sb who raises to $6. Hero calls on bb with 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Flop: 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Villain checks, hero makes a pot sized bet, villain calls.

Turn: A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Villain checks, hero makes a pot sized bet, villain calls.

River: J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Villain leads with a pot sized bet, hero calls.

Villain shows A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Is there an escape here? River fold? Or is this just a cold decking? I've always seen the check-call, check-call, bet pot line from a mediocre player as a definite nuts hand, but I couldn't lay my set here.



Hand Two: UTG, Hero, Villain all with full stacks, button with a 1/3 stack.

PF: UTG limps, hero raises to $9 in MP with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], villain calls immediately to hero's left, button calls, and UTG calls.

Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

UTG checks, Hero bets 2/3 pot, villain calls, button folds, UTG folds.

Turn: 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Now what? Pot is about $90. Hero and villain each have about $170 in their stacks. Was the bet on the flop an error? Should it have been bigger? Smaller? Check-raised?

[thac]

Hand 1 - Definitely 3-bet preflop to around 20-22. Flop and turn are fine, I probably call river because I spew too much and this may be a fold but I doubt it.

Hand 2 - I think the flop bet is fine, but when villain just calls with two people to act, it looks like he's very strong or very weak (boat, draw, TT-88, Jx in that order). I probably just c/f the turn though because even if you hit a diamond you may not be good.

[theplux]

Standard. First hand he's an idiot. Second hand c/c or c/f don't bet.

[barryc83]

he played it like the Ah in hand 1 I snapcall this, I RR pf herer a decent bit too.

2 c/f it. or c/c if he bets really small, like donkishly small.

[somedude99]

Firstly, I'm poker noob so take what I say with a grain of salt.

For the first hand I'd probably overbet the pot on the flop and check fold the turn. If he calls me on the flop then I know that a) he's got the flush or b) he's willing to represent the flush whether another heart hits or not and even with 999 I wouldn't want to put myself in the position where I'll be dominated if a heart falls on the turn or the river. I mean, even if the turn shows a blank like in this case the other player is only going to call if he has a better hand.

[thac]

[ QUOTE ]
Firstly, I'm poker noob so take what I say with a grain of salt.

For the first hand I'd probably overbet the pot on the flop and check fold the turn. If he calls me on the flop then I know that a) he's got the flush or b) he's willing to represent the flush whether another heart hits or not and even with 999 I wouldn't want to put myself in the position where I'll be dominated if a heart falls on the turn or the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Holy jesus no.. we WANT him to draw with one heart.

[somedude99]

@thac. That's really surprising to me. Like I said, I'm a poker noob and I'm not defending my position as being right but if I were in that situation that's what I'd do. My rational is that I'm winning if I take down the pot right then and there on flop.

[thac]

[ QUOTE ]
@thac. That's really surprising to me. Like I said, I'm a poker noob and I'm not defending my position as being right but if I were in that situation that's what I'd do. My rational is that I'm winning if I take down the pot right then and there on flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

But you're a favorite over a random heart.. so if you bet about 3/4 pot and he calls, you're making a lot of money long-term.. When the 4th heart comes (undoubtedly) you can give up if you don't boat up. I mean, when you bet and get all worse hands to fold.. who are you making money from? You're winning a small pot or losing a big one.

[somedude99]

@thac. Point taken. That makes perfect sense to me. Thanks for elaborating. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[tubasteve]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
@thac. That's really surprising to me. Like I said, I'm a poker noob and I'm not defending my position as being right but if I were in that situation that's what I'd do. My rational is that I'm winning if I take down the pot right then and there on flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

But you're a favorite over a random heart.. so if you bet about 3/4 pot and he calls, you're making a lot of money long-term.. When the 4th heart comes (undoubtedly) you can give up if you don't boat up. I mean, when you bet and get all worse hands to fold.. who are you making money from? You're winning a small pot or losing a big one.

[/ QUOTE ]

i like how you just took TOP and summarized it in like 4 sentences