The Dude Converts

[The Dude]

I'm not sure that this post wouldn't be more appropriate in the SMP forum, but since David Sklansky's arguments had at least some influence on this decision, I'll put it here.

This past Wednesday night I became convinced that the Universe exists without a supernatural designer. In fact, I am of the opinion that it is a virtual certainty that "God" doesn't exist. The nature of the arguments that lead me to this conclusion are not such that you can accept them and be less certain. Either the arguments are valid and God's existence is all but ruled out, or you reject the arguments and are left to other considerations.

So, in a matter of 15 minutes I went from being roughly, I don't know, 70% sure that the Biblical God is real to being virtually certain he is not. This was not an easy thing for me to admit to myself. Indeed, it's not an easy thing for a Christian to admit to himself that he's even open to these kinds of arguments, let alone buys into them.

Anyway, most of the people I cherish and love in this world (including my wife) are Christian. I don't know how this is going to play out in my life, but I do know that hiding this within myself wasn't a workable option.

Well, I don't know if any of you care or not, but I at least want to say to David that not all of his messages to Christians fall on deaf ears. While it was Richard Dawkin's "Ultimate 747" argument that delivered the final blow, I was only open to the idea because of countless conversations (message board or whatever) I've had over the past three years, not the least convincing of which were in threads started by David.

Cheers,
Dude

[joes28]

welcome to the dark side. We have been waiting for you.

[jogger08152]

Not meaning any offense, Dude, but Dawkin's response to the 747 analogy is quite weak. (At least, assuming the summaries I've read do a decent job summing up his "rebuttal".)

Specifically, if we were to stipulate that a designer would indeed need to be quite complex (and I'm not sure whether or not this is true, but let's grant it for the sake of discussion),
1) "He" would not need to be "designed" himself. The notion of the "unmoved mover" is an old, fundamental concept in Christianity.
2) The point of the 747 analogy is strictly to make a comparison, because one way or another, the 747 (complex life in the universe) indisputable *does* exist. The question that remains is, is it more likely that a complex, undesigned designer built the 747, or was it the tornado?

Quite clearly Dawkins would prefer it to be the latter, but his preference (and the reasoning he uses to support it) makes little sense to me.

[drunkencowboy]

Wow. The Dude has a wife? Reading this post I coulda sworn he was gay... oh well...


and there is a God, Ive met him.

[Paragon]

Takes a lot of courage. Welcome to the dark side indeed [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Dromar]

I suppose, since we're on the subject, I'll share my story of when I realized I didn't believe in God.

I've never really had any strong feelings about my belief or nonbelief in God. I'm a senior in college now, and for the past two years I've been working toward my math degree. This drastically changed my thinking process, to say the least, specifically, it made me rethink why I believe things. Of course, the subject of God doesn't come up much in math courses, so I had never really given it any thought. Then, Daniel Negreanu asked Bill Chen if he believed in God. That sparked me to think about my belief in God in a mathematical context.

Well, I'm pretty confident that, as far as math is concerned, God doesn't exist. But that's a bit tangential to my point.

So I was walking one day, and I guess I had nothing better to think about, so I asked myself, "Do I believe in God?"
Yes, I thought. "Why?"
Because if I don't, I'm going to hell. But fear isn't a good enough reason to believe in God, IMO. It reminds me of the quote by JFK: "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself." I agree. We shouldn't be afraid of God. We should be afraid of being afraid of God. In that context, God seems like a tyrant. So my question "Why?" was left unanswered.

I don't believe in God because I have no reason to. Or at least, no reason that I deem worthy.

It's definitely an emotional experience.

[The Dude]

BTW, my wife just left me.

[George Rice]

[ QUOTE ]
BTW, my wife just left me.

[/ QUOTE ]

See, there is a God.

[fraac]

Other way around here. I grew up atheist, for all the usual logical reasons. Then God started talking to me.

[nirfdog]

[ QUOTE ]

It reminds me of the quote by JFK: "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."

[/ QUOTE ]

You should fear misquoting people.