NL Hold'em: level of competition Live vs Online (by stake)

[Roma Norgy]

I just got done reading an Internet Gambling post where somebody equated 1/2NL live to "somewhere in between 10c/25c and 25c/50c." Obviously level of competition will vary by location, time of day, and seasonal fluctuations. But what would you say is the average competition equivalent for various live stakes, say from 1/2 to 10/20?

For example:

1/2 = 10c/25c-25c/50c (or if you disagree, post otherwise)
2/5 = xy-yz
5/10 = xy-yz
10/20 = xy-yz

Thanks for advance to anyone who takes the time to quell my curiosity.

[Carlson411]

I haven't played higher than 1/2 NL live. I've played 1/2 NL online and its way harder than 1/2 Live. 25/50c sounds about right. The level change between live and online is about 3 levels so 10/25c should be equivalent to 1/2 NL. Im sure somebody else will add to your post or correct me.

[Packard]

1/2 NL live has players way worse than .25/.50 cent online

[Paul Levy]

Live and online players are different animals altogether, and while it's quite true that dollar-for-dollar the live games are typically much softer it's hard to make comparisons like you suggest.
In B&M cardrooms you don't find many committed scholars of the game, and the size of the bet is much larger than online (especially preflop).

So in a nutshell the live fish makes more mistakes and puts more money in when he makes them, which makes the game very profitable, but at the same time some otherwise hopeless donks have such a long experience at playing cards at a table (not necessarily holdem, sometimes not even poker) that they have developed a keen sense for what's going on around them, which to some extent compensates.

Most people here laugh at the whole proposition of "tells" in a live game, but you'd be amazed at some 80-something geezers I've seen, that don't know Sklansky from Malmuth but manage to stay afloat because they know where they stand on the river.

[Roma Norgy]

Very well put, Paul.

I was more looking for a general rule of thumb as I plan to start spelling my online play with some live stints to keep things "fresh."

My line of thinking is that the slower hand speed and inability to multi-table will be offset by the softer competition and increased ability/opportunity to concentrate and get reads. (At least for me I know for me I find it excruciatingly painful to 1-table online, but somehow I have little trouble folding away for hours live.)

Anyway, thanks for the response.

PS: I'll take note and try to get such 80-something geezers all-in on the turn.

[cha59]

[ QUOTE ]
1/2 NL live has players way worse than .25/.50 cent online

[/ QUOTE ]

This is true and it isnt close. I've seen quite a few comments from very good players in other forums say that these days, the typical internet game is about equivilent to a cash game at 10 times the stakes. In other words, a .50/1.00 internet game would have players of similar skill to a 5/10 live game. Internet games have become much tougher the past six months.

[johnnyrocket]

yea the lives games are much easier, i'd say add 3 levels as a very broad guess. Like 1/2NL online is equal to 5/10NL live, (2/4NL, 3/6NL) etc if u get that

[otter]

"Most people here laugh at the whole proposition of "tells" in a live game"
-not sure what you mean by this

[Vidocq]

[ QUOTE ]
yea the lives games are much easier, i'd say add 3 levels as a very broad guess. Like 1/2NL online is equal to 5/10NL live, (2/4NL, 3/6NL) etc if u get that

[/ QUOTE ]

This is only sort of true. The key thing is that the games are different. An average 5/10NL live game is going to play very differently than a 1/2NL game. First of all, the stacks are very likely to be much deeper. There are plenty of uncapped 5/10NL games around and even those with caps might have a 1500 cap (150 BB's). As the game develops and people reload the game can get very deep. Second, you are likely to play for a longer time with the same people, so individual reads become much more important. Third, there are likely to be variations like straddles and time pots that don't exist online. Fourth, "typical" bet sizes are going to be different, especially preflop. Fifth, B&M at a casino or cardroom is much more likely to be full ring than short handed. Sixth, the frequency of bluffing is probably different.

Skills developed online probably transfer easier to B&M than vice versa but it is not automatic. I guarantee that someone who was a successful 1/2 online player who sits dowwn for the first time at a 5/10 B&M game is going to be a bit at sea for the first few hours.

[monkeymaps]

I think 1/2 and 2/5 live are very beatable for anyone who can beat .10/25c online

IMO the learning curve goes up sharply at 5/10NL but with good game selection it can still be profitable for less skilled players.

Actually alot of 1/2 games prob can be beat buy anyone who wins at .01/.02 online