The state of Notre Dame football.

[shemp]

Dids, now you hatin on Skippy?

UW will have their runs again, eventually. They are naturally fairly dominant recruiting in the Pac NW. What tips the scales is when they compete for NoCalers and for the subset of SoCalers who want to get out of SoCal. I think Berkeley's improvement hurts them as much as Oregon. And they were never stealing folks from USC/UCLA so much as getting the locals that weren't headed there. But I'm sure you know more about this than me-- maybe I'm completely full of it.

More to the thread at hand though, Why do you and Bernie call him Weiss?

[DVaut1]

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We were unranked to start 2007 and many of us considered it a lost season anyway with so few upperclassman

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Yeah, you guys just knew it was going to be a lost season. Set your internet time machines back to August and discover the hilarious truth:



http://bluegraysky.blogspot.com/2007...68030567018432

This isn't one, but NINE Notre Dame bloggers predictions from the preseason. This isn't just a singular, crazy fool I dug up. This is Notre Dame's most popular blog, and they got NINE Notre Dame bloggers together to predict Notre Dame's record preseason, and the ABSOLUTE WORST two of the guys came up with is 8-4! One guy thought ND was going 11-1! LOL

But yeah, yeah, Domer nation just knew this was going to be a "lost" season.

[TalkingDonkey]

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We were unranked to start 2007 and many of us considered it a lost season anyway with so few upperclassman

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, you guys just knew it was going to be a lost season. Set your internet time machines back to August and discover the hilarious truth:



http://bluegraysky.blogspot.com/2007...68030567018432

This isn't one, but NINE Notre Dame bloggers predictions from the preseason. This isn't just a singular, crazy fool I dug up. This is Notre Dame's most popular blog, and they got NINE Notre Dame bloggers together to predict Notre Dame's record preseason, and the ABSOLUTE WORST two of the guys came up with is 8-4! One guy thought ND was going 11-1! LOL

But yeah, yeah, Domer nation just knew this was going to be a terrible season.

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omg, please tell me these guys don't consider themselves "experts"

that anyone thought this team could go 11-1 is laughable

[DVaut1]

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omg, please tell me these guys don't consider themselves "experts"

that anyone thought this team could go 11-1 is laughable

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Dylan (the 11-1 guy) before the season:

"Dylan - When we beat Georgia Tech and Penn State, it will be because they were overrated. When we beat Michigan, and beat them at their own game, people will realize that ND is better than 39th-best."

Yeah, safe to say they're not exactly experts at college football prognosticating.

[damaniac]

My favorite part of this is that UCLA was the second-most popular pick to lose (tied with PSU). How many times in a row does Sparty need to beat them in South Bend before they learn? And I love the continued disrespect ND gives BC, given they haven't beaten them in several years.

[MrFeelNothin]

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just a note: Ty's last recruiting class was #32
quit assigning the blame to Ty for Charlie's #40 recruting class



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OK, w/respect to the current senior class (the one you say is #32), it consisted of 17 players only 3 of which are still around and making an impact (Lambert, Brown and Crum). Four guys are on the team but only have roles on the scout team (Jabbie, Ferrine, Vernaglia, Bragg). TEN guys have left the team completely.

7 seniors. What other school in D1 that has such a small senior class?

Did the 2005 class suffer a bit because Weis stayed an extra month in New England? Possibly. But the majority of the responsibility is with Ty. Recruting classes are only finalized in the last month...if you're waiting that long to get anything more than a final one-sie/two-sie player you haven't put in the work you've needed. Right now the Irish have 21 commitments and it's not even November yet (they had 17-18 before the season began, which is where the 2005 class topped out). Assigning Weis the blame for that awful class is like blaming a relief pitcher for an opponent scoring when the starter left the bases loaded.

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That amount of time is still more than enough to make a splash in recruiting
For instance, Ed Orgeron was able to move Ole Miss up to about #25 in that month. Butch Davis was able to come in last year and nab instant producers (real ones, not the inflated ND recruits) that will have UNC better in 4 years than ND. In a month, he brought in Marvin Austin, Greg Little, Richard Mason, Mike Paulus and some others that weren't even on their list.
When the coaching turnover happens, it's time to come in and recruit and hard.

early commits typically suck to have unless they are the huge 5*/4* guys
it's not necessarily a good thing to have so many commits right now
players can and do change their mind--ND had 3 of its top 5 change in the last week and go elsewhere last year IIRC
a large portion of the better players wait until the very end to decide

it's not a relief pitching mode


also, I'm not sure many understand the recruiting 'game.' A player's stock will instantly rise if ND comes in and says they are interested. The recruiting machine overstates ND all the time. So far, it looks like Weis is pretty poor at scouting, so this inflation is absurd right now.

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TY MyTurn, I had a feeling that something like this was going on, but I didn't know enough to put it into words.

[Franchise 60]

So if all of these ND recruits went to other major schools that were interested in them they would be overrated? Based just on the fact that ND was very interested in them? And this thinking also applies to all the recruits ND loses out on to big schools like USC, OSU, UM, etc?

This seems a like to much of a black and white statement to me. I know that you know an insane amount about college football MT2R, i'm not even attempting to question that. I just think that while this may be true in some cases with ND recruits, you can't say that all of these guys are overrated based on just the fact that ND showed a lot of interest in them, when other huge schools showed a great deal of interest in them also.

Its not like ND is competing for kids that Mid Majors think they have a shot at, while none of the other programs want them.

If you wanted to claim that this hype machine did this with all major "prestige" universities than I'd be a lot more inclined to agree with you, but I feel you are being a little unfair here.

[MyTurn2Raise]

I'm saying it definitely moves a guy up a spot or two
--this is enough to push ND roughly 5 spots higher than they should be nearly every year (the lines are thin between classes just as they are in season rankings for win/losses)

Weis is still doing a great job and there will be no excuse to not have a top10 team in 3 years

yes, the hype goes onto all schools, however it's more with ND.
Partly because it's ND. Partly because of the close relationship with Tom Lemming and ND.

A recent book, Meat Market by Bruce Feldman, had some good info on this. The book is mainly focused on Ole Miss recruiting for one season. Oftentimes, if LSU got involved on a guy, he would suddenly jump on the recruiting rankings as the recruiting analysts would trust LSU's judgment.

ND gets the same treatment to a higher magnitude. So far, I've seen nothing of the Weis regime to dictate they deserve that respect for their scouting.

[NozeCandy]

I think Sam "Turnstile" Young was a 5-Star, am I right?

[damaniac]

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I think Sam "Turnstile" Young was a 5-Star, am I right?

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He did really well against Woodley as a true frosh last year. What the heck happened? More time under Weis = decline?