5 handed ftp 55k final table hand

[Stumpy]

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making a larger 3-bet will decrease my equity needed to call to the point where the break even situation i described in the op would probably become a call. can i/should i use this to my advantage in a spot like this?

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Do you feel like the shove would be just as likely over the larger reraise? (I would assume so.)

If it doesn't change his shoving range, then raising bigger doesn't help you. It might make the call better, but in sort of a "conservation of EV" way, your bigger 3-Bet was less EV than the smaller one.

[People_Mover]

I play it the same way. I busted 10th running AQ into AK 6 handed then QK vs. AQ [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] "Shipitoverhere"

obv run hot when it matters. [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

[luckychewy]

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In the hand in question, 3/bet call for sure. 77/88 are def getting pushed, AJ lots of the time and KQ too.

In general, I'm not a huge fan of flatting in spots like this. It could just be that people give me less respect than most, but I find myself getting pushed back on here by a range wide enough that calling the 4 bet is def correct. Also, my postflop play isn't that great, but don't you find it hard to play these pots when you miss the flop?

Btw, I am "mhrep." Sick beat [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

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well i def don't find it unlikely that ppl push back at you lighter...you seem to play pretty damn aggro. and maybe they push back light to me as well, either way in the future i will be 3-bet/calling here as it seems the general consensus is to do so.

wtf does mhrep mean btw?

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I would have just gone allin PF with a hand like AQ and other mediocre hands, while MAYBE raising less with my biggest hands and my bluff hands. Mainly I want to discourage pocket pairs from calling so I'll do go allin, but also for balance I'll do it with JJ-88 type hands. You are a little deeper for this than I'd like, but I think 30x BB just makes the cut. I just don't see the point of raising 1/3rd of your stack.

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i think these are all valid points.

how about if we are 40 deep everyone? i think that changes things at least a little bit.

thx for the responses so far everyone.

[curtains]

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In the hand in question, 3/bet call for sure. 77/88 are def getting pushed, AJ lots of the time and KQ too.

In general, I'm not a huge fan of flatting in spots like this. It could just be that people give me less respect than most, but I find myself getting pushed back on here


by a range wide enough that calling the 4 bet is def correct. Also, my postflop play isn't that great, but don't you find it hard to play these pots when you miss the flop?

Btw, I am "mhrep." Sick beat [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

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well i def don't find it unlikely that ppl push back at you lighter...you seem to play pretty damn aggro. and maybe they push back light to me as well, either way in the future i will be 3-bet/calling here as it seems the general consensus is to do so.

wtf does mhrep mean btw?

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I would have just gone allin PF with a hand like AQ and other mediocre hands, while MAYBE raising less with my biggest hands and my bluff hands. Mainly I want to discourage pocket pairs from calling so I'll do go allin, but also for balance I'll do it with JJ-88 type hands. You are a little deeper for this than I'd like, but I think 30x BB just makes the cut. I just don't see the point of raising 1/3rd of your stack.

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i think these are all valid points.

how about if we are 40 deep everyone? i think that changes things at least a little bit.

thx for the responses so far everyone.

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40 BBs I reraise to like 10x the BB and then figure out what to do if they push.

[Ship Ship McGipp]

WOW i such at math and making arguements but i dont' believe shoving here with AQ can POSSBLY be right, or better than a smaller 3-bet.

i would probably flat here like 75% of the time, and when i do 3-bet, i do so even smaller- to like 48k, or something.

regardless, i don't know that it's bad to 3-bet/decide, but i'd much much rather 3-bet a range of mmonsters that i'm snapp calling a shove with and air with these stack szies, i'm rpetty sure i'm right but ask james he';ll know

actually, i'm pretty sure it is bad to 3-bet/tank. like not good, imo, and this deep, i would not be looking to get it in that fast against someone who isn't no the button

[ZJ123]

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i think raise folding is really bad, maybe this is a leak but im raise/calling (pretty fast too), maybe its because i get played back light idk. Id rather flat then raise/fold.

Djk123--your mhrep on FTP?!?

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na i just played with you a lot and i just assumed it was one of the ranked P5ers cause they always say that, btw what does it mean?
lol yes. Why? Did I suck out on you or something [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

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[Dave D]

Raising 1/4 of your stack here with less than QQ is pretty awful. It's call or shove for me. I like the call, because then I can play poker. Although I hate being out of position, I just think a shove is too much here, as it never gets called by a hand we beat (maybe KQ might call?) and we're flippamenting with pairs for not that much of an overlay. Flat call, hide your hand, play poker and try to win a bigger pot later from a donk. Standard.

Whatever you do, don't ever raise 1/4 of your stack with a plan to fold.

[Isura]

Very tough spot, but I hate the 3-bet fold here. I think shoving is fine, and +EV. But if you are a good player, and villain probably sucks. So I think just flat calling and having a plan for certain flops plays better into your strength.

[curtains]

Im not sure why so many people like 3 betting small? You are putting in 1/3rd of your stack without really having that great a hand, when instead you could go allin. Meanwhile we give our opponent the perfectly reasonable option to call our raise, due to our small raise amount, which isn't particularly good for us. I mean in general I try to avoid putting in a third of my stack (instead of moving allin) without a very good reason, and I don't really see a great one here.

Yeah if we go allin we may eliminate some hands we dominate that MIGHT have made a move on us, but we will also get some smaller pairs to fold, which is really good for us, and we eliminate the call option.

[djk123]

I don't understand shoving 30bbs here. Sure it's plus ev, but I think 3bet/call or maybe even just flat call are more +ev. Personally, I would rather 3bet/call than flat call cuz i suck at playing it when we miss. I'd make this same raise with air some % of the time and big pairs some % of the time, although i prolly flat aa and kk here quite a bit.
Also, I don't think villain flatting our raise ( not with a big pair) is bad for us. On the flop, he won't have that much more than a pot sized bet, so if we shove every flop he won't be hitting the flop enough for his preflop call to be good.

oh and chewy and zj, it doesn't really mean anything. my friend started saying it. then i started sayin it and a bunch of others started sayin it, etc