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  #1  
Old 11-25-2007, 08:08 AM
TxRedMan TxRedMan is offline
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Default Ruling needed, I feel dirty (Winstar obv)

In sum,

Player goes to showdown in a 5-10 NL game on a A-9-5-5-2 board and bets the river and gets called. Doesn't want to turn his hand over, says "ace is good, I have kings". Other player tables T-9, angleshooter mucks w/ obv bit of embarrassment.

Later on it's a multiway raised pot PF, flop comes A-J-9 w/ flush draw, PF raiser bets $60 into $120, angleshooter shoves AI for $220, and the action is on me. I'm counting out a raise and literally two seconds after he shoves, he's standing up holding his cards in his hands (but protecting it from being seen) and tells the player next to him he has top two, in a way that was obvious he wanted everyone to know but didn't want everyone to know he wanted them to know. I have top two- I iso-raise to get it HU w/ the angleshooter who tables A3.

He did this 4 times in a few hours yesterday, in various forms and at various times during the hand.

And seeing how desperate I was to play cards this weekend- WINSTAR (ugh, i feel dirty) floor couldn't give a ruling, didn't know what to say, played both sides of the fence, and then gave the table a warning when the player who was doing this was gone to get money. Yes, she came up and heard the inquiry, then didn't give an answer, then announced "this is a blanket warning for table 43" when the angleshooter had gone to the ATM. Lawl.


Anyways, how should a good floor deal with this angleshooter?


Interesting observation from the table yesterday: Player 1 is out of position to player 2, and player one has not acted yet. Player 2 announces "bet $150" with chips in hand, then Player 1 and the dealer tell her that the action is still on Player 1, who, plays fast and wasn't delaying in his action, nor did he make any move to indicate he had checked, i.e., it was Player 2's fault. Player 1 wants to know if that bet is binding if he checks, dealer doesn't know. I'm sitting next to him and tell him action out of turn is binding, but the floor was nearby so the dealer asked the four foot four floor (lol, couldn't not use that alliteration) and his reaction was one of confused-on the spot-oh [censored] what do I say body language followed by "Maybe one time we give warning, but second time may be different".


Solid.


The other amusing incidents were a dealer telling me to take my ipod off the rail, where it had been for the past five hours, in front of the floor and all the other dealers. And she was totally serious.

I had to pay the big blind twice b/c the dealer didn't move the button. The dealer had dealt almost all the hands, I objected before the deal then stopped him again to alert him to this but someone had already called, and he told me the floor would rule that there was already action and that if I really wanted my money back he'd give it to me "out of his own pocket". I let it go.


I went to bet $50 on the river and crossed the betting line with $60 in my hand and the dealer made me put the extra $10 out there. I love how they try to protect from one possible angleshoot but are totally [censored] struck as to how to approach the completely obvious and more rampant ones.

Also, the $1 bad beat jackpot drop- it doesn't go to the house or the players, not a dime. Yes, they have a bad beat jackpot, but it's not funded by that $1, not a single red cent of it. Basically, someone counts how much money they made and makes some sort of adjustment to the jackpot, but, yesterday it was at $10,000 iirc and on a busy weekend like this one, it's pretty easy for them to kick out 20,000 hands per day, which is essentially 22 tables running for 24 hours straight, or any combination of 40, 30, 20, and 10 tables that totals the same. I'd say that 10% of it might be matched by the house for the players. And I dont care if the house doesn't get that money, i.e., that money winds up in the hands of state organizations so there can be gambling in hick [censored], OK, the house still gets credit for producing that income for the state, thus lessening their burden, robbing Peter to pay Paul.


-Tex
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  #2  
Old 11-25-2007, 08:26 AM
fatshark fatshark is offline
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Default Re: Ruling needed, I feel dirty (Winstar obv)

So.....I'm sensing you really don't like Winstar?
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  #3  
Old 11-25-2007, 11:42 AM
toss toss is offline
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Default Re: Ruling needed, I feel dirty (Winstar obv)

I wonder if angle-shooters realize how scumbaggy they are. Do you ever point out to the angle-shooters how scumbaggy you think they are?
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  #4  
Old 11-25-2007, 01:37 PM
Taso Taso is offline
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Default Re: Ruling needed, I feel dirty (Winstar obv)

I don't think the first one is an angle shoot. He assumed the guy had the Ace, was embarassed at playing the hand bad, and hoped to save face claiming he had Kings.

The second one, I'm 'thinking' you can say whatever you want about your hand as long as its not the truth? Not even 70% sure on that.
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  #5  
Old 11-25-2007, 03:41 PM
wrschultz wrschultz is offline
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Default Re: Ruling needed, I feel dirty (Winstar obv)

I was also playing 5/10 last night from about 9pm-3am. I was sitting in seat 1 in the must move, and seat 4 in the main. (6'3 300, brown shirt and jeans.)

At one point there was some seriously shady action between these two asian guys, and a bunch of the nits started screaming collusion. I didn't want to get involved, but I definitely thought something was wrong at the time. Later I decided that they were definitely not colluding..

Anyway, JESUS those games were soft.
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  #6  
Old 11-25-2007, 03:42 PM
bav bav is offline
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Default Re: Ruling needed, I feel dirty (Winstar obv)

The first one is absolutely an angle. It is NOT permitted to intentionally miscall your hand at showdown. Ever.

Second one would be ok if heads-up since there is still more betting to come, but because there are multiple people in the pot I don't like his babble; he may get someone with AK to fold and the first guy who went all-in may have flopped the nuts, so his babble impacts more than himself.
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  #7  
Old 11-25-2007, 04:04 PM
RR RR is offline
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Default Re: Ruling needed, I feel dirty (Winstar obv)

You know what is wrong there and you still play there. What incentive does the casino have to go out and get a competent floor staff?
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  #8  
Old 11-25-2007, 09:48 PM
wrschultz wrschultz is offline
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Default Re: Ruling needed, I feel dirty (Winstar obv)

RR, this casino has a COMPLETE monopoly on Dallas area poker. There are literally no other casinos that spread midstakes nl within several hundred miles.

Even though I am frequently annoyed by rulings, I just kind of bite my tongue and relieve donks of their money.
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  #9  
Old 11-26-2007, 01:06 AM
Phat Mack Phat Mack is offline
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Default Re: Ruling needed, I feel dirty (Winstar obv)

[ QUOTE ]
Anyways, how should a good floor deal with this angleshooter?

[/ QUOTE ]

Floor should do nuttin'. In fact, the guy's so lame it's hard for me to think of it as an angle. I know some tourneys have rules about talking, but in a live game, if the guy's in the hand, he should be able to say anything.

If the guy says "Two Pair," and you isolate him with top two, why would you object? I would have tipped the floor for warning the table when the guy was at the ATM. If the floor had done otherwise, she would have been tapping on the glass.

jmo
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  #10  
Old 11-26-2007, 03:56 AM
Spiffysean Spiffysean is offline
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Default Re: Ruling needed, I feel dirty (Winstar obv)

I had a situation like that pop up in a 5/5 game that I was playing. Lots of action going to the river, and at showdown, the one guy says "Trip Kings". The other guy mucks his hand in disgust, obviously rivered by the King on the river.

The problem is, the guy didn't have trip kings... he had middle pair and a busted draw. He tables he hand, and wins a 1k pot because the other guy flung his cards into the muck.

Now THAT's the angle. It's one of the dirtiest things I've ever seen at a table, and there was nothing that could be done. The villian totally misrepresented his hand, and got paid off.
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