I suck at poker and handreading

[rzk]

i really don't see how you can 3-bet here. i think you are an underdog to his range when he raises you or maybe a very slight favorite. it's not even a close decision for me, which probably means i have a leak.

[danzasmack]

rzk, IMO a guy like the villain described is jamming a lot of draws in position and should be fast playing made hands vs. us, that heavily skews his range on this turn to a semi-bluff type showdownable draw - or KQ. I know we have a queen so that makes a queen less likely but he raised a queen which makes it MORE likely.

You don't have a leak if you can recall a player like this raising mainly hands that crush AQ in this spot.

[milesdyson]

my range as co is something like this:

AA KK AQ KQ KJ QJ Q9 QT Q7s

most heavily discounted would be QJ because i raise the flop sometimes and don't always raise turn. KJ is discounted less because i raise the flop sometimes but always raise the turn. also discount AA and KK slightly because i don't always just call preflop. against me 3-betting is bad.

[rzk]

[ QUOTE ]
rzk, IMO a guy like the villain described is jamming a lot of draws in position and should be fast playing made hands vs. us, that heavily skews his range on this turn to a semi-bluff type showdownable draw - or KQ. I know we have a queen so that makes a queen less likely but he raised a queen which makes it MORE likely.

You don't have a leak if you can recall a player like this raising mainly hands that crush AQ in this spot.

[/ QUOTE ]

the thing is, when it comes to knowing what players with specific stats do, i put more trust in the experience of people like you than in my own, simply because you've played much more hands in your life.

but having said that, i think people play differently vs. a preflop raiser and vs. a preflop 3-bettor, because (a) the 3-bettor is less likely to fold, which makes semibluff raises less effective, (b) he's more likely to continutation bet the turn, which creates more incentive to just call the flop and (perhaps) raise the turn with both draws and made hands. so i think we can't discount too many made hands based on the fact that he didn't raise the flop and we should probably discount some draws because he will often decide it's not worth spending 3BB's trying to make a strong pf hand fold on this board (i said 3BB 'cuz he knows you'll rarely just b/f the turn).

also, just a general observation - not specific to players with good stats - it generally feels like when you are raised on the turn on a board with so many cards in the playing zone, the villain can usually beat top pair (by "usually" i mean >50%).

don't know if any of this corresponds to your experience.

[milesdyson]

[ QUOTE ]
he will often decide it's not worth spending 3BB's trying to make a strong pf hand fold on this board (i said 3BB 'cuz he knows you'll rarely just b/f the turn).

[/ QUOTE ]
yep, on 79TQ vs. a preflop 3-bettor in the BB who bets the turn, CO is really never getting a fold. this is why i, in CO's spot, never have something like AJ.

[frenchpignouf]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
he will often decide it's not worth spending 3BB's trying to make a strong pf hand fold on this board (i said 3BB 'cuz he knows you'll rarely just b/f the turn).

[/ QUOTE ]
yep, on 79TQ vs. a preflop 3-bettor in the BB who bets the turn, CO is really never getting a fold. this is why i, in CO's spot, never have something like AJ.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes but you are 30/20/0.8. With a good read, 3 bet is ok imo, but it can't be standard for me. Our image is important too in this hand. Moreover if CO bets the river with his semiblufs call>3 bet.

[danzasmack]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
he will often decide it's not worth spending 3BB's trying to make a strong pf hand fold on this board (i said 3BB 'cuz he knows you'll rarely just b/f the turn).

[/ QUOTE ]
yep, on 79TQ vs. a preflop 3-bettor in the BB who bets the turn, CO is really never getting a fold. this is why i, in CO's spot, never have something like AJ.

[/ QUOTE ]

neither do i

but i'm better than the people i play with, and so are you

[danzasmack]

fwiw i think that calling down is fine but I would 3-bet. If you are not comfortable 3-betting then call down. down down down. red knight's going down.

[NinaWilliams]

[ QUOTE ]
fwiw i think that calling down is fine but I would 3-bet. If you are not comfortable 3-betting then call down. down down down. red knight's going down.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, im calling down against most players here, I just felt like a 3 bet was correct vs this player.

[ILOVEPOKER929]

[ QUOTE ]
I'll usually 3-bet here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Anybody who 3bets the turn in this spot sucks at poker. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I seriously think 3betting this turn is horrible.