half the pot odds

[olmaters]

i asked this question in the probability forums and i just wanted to make sure. in a situation where im drawing for half of the pot say someone bets into me on the turn puttting the tenth big bet in the pot are pot odds for me to draw against 5-1 or are there further calculations to do beyond that. i ask because in the past ive been told that you must cut the pot size in half and then subtract one making my pot odds about 4-1 i dont understand why this is and is it true. sorry about the basic question im just now making the move to LO8 from LHE no doubt you guys are going to be seeing a lot more of me. thanks

[Buzz]

Olmaters - Try this:

1. Stack up 12 white chips to represent chips already in the pot.

2. Add 2 more white chips to represent an opponent's bet on the river.

3. Add 2 red chips to represent your call on the river.

If you win the whole pot, you get your 2 red chips back and you win all 14 white chips.

If you win half the pot, you get your 2 red chips back and you win 6 white chips.

You're getting 7 to 1 whole pot odds and 3 to 1 half pot odds.

See it?

Buzz

[olmaters]

thanks buzz, that was very simple. dont know how i was missing that.

[Buzz]

Olmaters - O.K. Good.

Now suppose there are 8 chips in the pot after the 2nd betting round, you're facing a 2 chip bet on the third betting round and you are virtually certain you'll be facing another 2 chip bet on the fourth betting round.

Stack 8 chips. Add 4 white chips for your opponent and 4 red chips for yourself.

If you win the whole pot, you get your own four chips back and win 12 chips. You're getting 3 to 1 reverse implied pot odds.

Now divide the stack of 12 white and 4 red chips into two piles. If you win half of the pot, you get your own four chips back and win 4 white chips. You're getting 1 to 1 reverse implied odds for half the pot.

See it?

Note carefully that you seem to be getting 5 to 1 pot odds to call the bet on the 3rd betting round (or 2 to 1 half pot odds) - but if you are fairly certain your opponent will bet again on the fourth betting round and are also fairly certain you'll call, those odds you seem to be getting are very deceptive because the betting is not over yet.

There's a nice discussion of implied pot odds and reverse implied pot odds in David Sklansky's The Theory of Poker published by 2+2. (But David doesn't discuss half pot odds in TOP).

Buzz

[donger]

I think it's 4.5:1 immediate because their bet gets taken back if you chop.

[Buzz]

[ QUOTE ]
I think it's 4.5:1 immediate because their bet gets taken back if you chop.

[/ QUOTE ]Hi donger - If their bet gets taken back, then there are only 8 bets in the pot.

Buzz

[donger]

[ QUOTE ]
say someone bets into me on the turn puttting the tenth big bet in the pot


[/ QUOTE ]
what am I missing? 10 - 1 = 9, 9/2 = 4.5

[Buzz]

8+1-1=8.

8/2=4.

[donger]

where's the extra one? OP hasn't called yet and he's saying that when his opponent bet, it put the tenth bet into the pot. If he takes it back, there's 9, right?

Why are you starting with 8 anyway? The post said 10, so if you're going to prove your math, you need to start with the known pot size and then arrive at the conclusion, right?

[Buzz]

[ QUOTE ]
puttting the tenth big bet in the pot are pot odds for me to draw against 5-1 or are there further calculations to do beyond that.

[/ QUOTE ]Hi Donger - Depends on how you read the question. I'm reading it as though Hero is putting the tenth bet into the pot and wonders what the half pot odds are as he does so.

If there are 9 bets in the pot after the third betting round, as you seem to interpret, then when Villain puts the tenth bet into the pot, Hero's whole pot odds are 10 to 1 and his half pot odds are 4.5 to 1, just as you calculate. I was (and am) reading it as though there are 8 bets in the pot after the third betting round.

Our difference is in interpretation.

Buzz