Thinking out loud

[gjpure]

Over the memorial day weekend I was in Vegas @ the Mirage playing 2/5 NL. I raise UTG with KhKd and get one OOP caller. Flop comes Q high with two diamonds. Villian checks, I bet, he calls. Turn is a small diamond. He checks, I check. River is 4th small diamond. He checks, I bet $100 (into about a $250+ pot) and he raises another $150 on top.

So I am trying to figure out if he really has the Ad here or is he is just trying to represent it. In an attempt to figure out if I am good here, I start talking to him. I might have even showed him my hand to see his reaction. I say something like "do you really have the Ad?" "If you had the flush why didn't you bet the turn or river?" Especially the river? All the while I intend on calling, I am just hoping to pick up a tell and get a feel for what he looks like when he is weak or strong.

Now it turns out that I call, and he made some kind of straight and I win the pot.

After I rake in a nice pot, this older guy who was sitting next to me decides to give me his 2 cents. He says I should basically not think out loud, that better players will then know how I think and use it against me. On one hand I respected his advice since he appeared like someone who took poker seriously, but at the same time I asked him about people like Daniel Negraneau who I constantly see talking out loud in an attempt to figure his opponent out. That seems to be is style and it works effectively. The guy told me thats just something the pros do on TV.

Well maybe he is right, and maybe he isn't, but it gave me something to think about. My personality is that I am a talker. I like to try to use that to my advantage. Perhaps at times I say too much, but I have learned over the years when to shut up and when to speak. Against a more experienced opponent I know that asking him questions or showing my cards wouldnt do me any good. So I don't bother. But at many times, I have made a sick call because I have got my opponent to say something or react to what I was saying. I have picked off many river bluffs this way.

So what does everyone think of talking out loud and showing cards heads up? How many of you use it? Do you think the old man was right? Or was he out of line?

[btmagnetw]

i tend to agree with him. other people at the table can use that info against you. they know how deeply you think and they're able to peg you as a player more preciesly.

what do you get in return? maybe a tell in this one hand in which you would probably make the same decision anyway? or maybe a tell which if you just sweated him for a little bit would have come out too?

[afadeyi]

meh

[aaokwitme]

THE OLD BIRD MAKES A GOOD POINT BUT DID'NT HE JUST DO THE SAME THING WHEN HE TOLD YOU ABOUT IT. ANYWAY IF TALKING IS YOUR GAME THEN TALK, IT MAY BITE YOU IN THE ASSS NOW AND THEN BUT LOOK A JAMIE GOLD.

[innerpeace]

generally speaking, i think talking out loud is acceptable. though your opponents might better understand your thinking on this particular hand, you can use that information against them in future hands by playing differently. you should be constantly adjusting your play based on your opponents' perception of your playing image. of course, this is not always easy to do and requires experience.

[JayKon]

I think out load all the time, but I don't always tell the truth. That way I get what I want and don't give much up.

As to showing cards, I don't, but I see many who do and it doesn't seem to affect them much.

[Goodnews]

[ QUOTE ]
I have made a sick call because I have got my opponent to say something or react to what I was saying. I have picked off many river bluffs this way.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you call 100% of the time, you snap off bluffs 100% of the time. Is that sick too?

[llleisure]

Caro had a good article in the recent Poker News about keeping secrets. Basically what the old guy was telling you is that in your chatting you are unnecesarrily sharing information about your own thought process which someone could then later use against you.

It's not that you shouldn't talk if talking helps you but do be careful just how much information you give away. Read the Caro article if you can, good stuff and valid point he makes.

[n0thx]

Too much is focused on minor issues like these. Focus on playing comfortably so your brain is able to pick up and soak in more information... the less time racking your brain on whether you should let yourself talk or not, the more time you can use it for more important things. Go ahead and talk if that's natural for you.

[Humble Pie]

Thinking out loud is toolish. You're gonna end up giving away alot of info about yourself and how you play. Also you come across (once again) as a huge tool. GL