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#21
06-28-2007, 10:20 PM
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Re: Bald Eagle off the endangered species list
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Lol. The Tasmanian Tiger was hunted to extinction at the behest of the Australian government. [/ QUOTE ] So what? People owned them, but they still went extinct. That means your statement: "The world has never run out of any privately owned resource in history," is false. [/ QUOTE ] Since you are being deliberately obtuse, as usual, I will ammend my original statement to say, "Except for those annihilated by governments, the world has never run out of any privately ovened resource in history." [ QUOTE ] Back to the horse example, do you know of anyone who owns wild horses? [/ QUOTE ] No. They wouldn't be wild then, now would they? The question you dodged was something to the effect of: The existence of privately owned horses protects wild horses. Do you see why? I eagerly await the redodging. 
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#22
06-28-2007, 10:37 PM
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Re: Bald Eagle off the endangered species list
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I don't get why the argument is even going this direction. There's no question that the Bald Eagle would die out, because some people might try to save it, with others would hunt it for food, and I'd be willing to wager the hunt crowd would outweigh the save crowd. [/ QUOTE ] Just like cows, pigs, turkeys, and chickens have died out because we hunted them for food.
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#23
06-28-2007, 11:06 PM
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Re: Bald Eagle off the endangered species list
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I don't get why the argument is even going this direction. There's no question that the Bald Eagle would die out, because some people might try to save it, with others would hunt it for food, and I'd be willing to wager the hunt crowd would outweigh the save crowd. [/ QUOTE ] Just like cows, pigs, turkeys, and chickens have died out because we hunted them for food. [/ QUOTE ] No we bread them for food, I said hunted. We hunt deer too (at least I do) but people rarely breed them. Rather they've survived because of game limits, though that wasn't the point. Cody
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#25
06-28-2007, 11:29 PM
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Re: Bald Eagle off the endangered species list
[ QUOTE ]
Since you are being deliberately obtuse, as usual, I will ammend my original statement to say, "Except for those annihilated by governments, the world has never run out of any privately ovened resource in history." [/ QUOTE ] You're the one being obtuse by bringing up wild horses as comparable to bald eagles. Anyway, there are plenty of other extinct species that weren't targeted by governments. Here's one: the quagga. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quagga . There are hundreds of others as well. [ QUOTE ] No. They wouldn't be wild then, now would they? The question you dodged was something to the effect of: The existence of privately owned horses protects wild horses. Do you see why? I eagerly await the redodging. [/ QUOTE ] There's nothing to dodge. I see why: The existence of a market for domesticated horses makes it less likely for people to want to exploit wild horses. However, that does not guarantee the survival of horses in the wild. There are plenty of animals that used to exist in the wild but now only exist in domestic contexts or zoos. Remember, the point of the ESA is not only to prevent such animals from going extinct, but to also prevent them from going extinct IN THE WILD. Not only are bald eagles much more difficult to raise in captivity, they are much more sensitive than horses to habitat changes in the wild.
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#26
06-28-2007, 11:37 PM
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Re: Bald Eagle off the endangered species list
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We breed them to make the hunting easier. [/ QUOTE ] Don't be a nit. We "grow" cattle, there's no hunting. We hunt deer, they're wild. What I was refering too was the idea of ecological damage by not protecting a certain species. Let's use Bee's as an example. There was the study recently that attempted to prove that the migratory patterns of bees were being thrown off by our cell phone useage. This would be a good example of a species needed some sort of protection. Not saying the gov't is doing a good job (or come to think of it, anything), but this is a spot where peoples whim (market forces) may not be enough to prevent harm. Cody
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#27
06-28-2007, 11:50 PM
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Re: Bald Eagle off the endangered species list
[ QUOTE ]
Remember, the point of the ESA is not only to prevent such animals from going extinct, but to also prevent them from going extinct IN THE WILD. Not only are bald eagles much more difficult to raise in captivity, they are much more sensitive than horses to habitat changes in the wild. [/ QUOTE ] I guess this ESA was meant to protect them from going extinct in specific locations in the wild. If you folks had problems with bald eagles you should have let the folks in Alaska know, at any point in time from the 60's to the 90's, they could have shipped them to you by the tens of thousands. Instead, we had to shoot the damn things because they were a nuisance to fishermen. edit - at some point in time, I think in the 80's it did become a big time crime to kill a bald eagle. I think you could do more time for that than shooting a man.
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#28
06-28-2007, 11:59 PM
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Re: Bald Eagle off the endangered species list
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Remember, the point of the ESA is not only to prevent such animals from going extinct, but to also prevent them from going extinct IN THE WILD. Not only are bald eagles much more difficult to raise in captivity, they are much more sensitive than horses to habitat changes in the wild. [/ QUOTE ] I guess this ESA was meant to protect them from going extinct in specific locations in the wild. If you folks had problems with bald eagles you should have let the folks in Alaska know, at any point in time from the 60's to the 90's, they could have shipped them to you by the tens of thousands. Instead, we had to shoot the damn things because they were a nuisance to fishermen. edit - at some point in time, I think in the 80's it did become a big time crime to kill a bald eagle. I think you could do more time for that than shooting a man. [/ QUOTE ] Aren't your oil subsidies enough to shut you people up?
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#29
06-29-2007, 12:02 AM
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Re: Bald Eagle off the endangered species list
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] We breed them to make the hunting easier. [/ QUOTE ] Don't be a nit. We "grow" cattle, there's no hunting. We hunt deer, they're wild. [/ QUOTE ] Don't be a nit. We kill them both. We "grow" the cattle to make the process more productive. [ QUOTE ] What I was refering too was the idea of ecological damage by not protecting a certain species. Let's use Bee's as an example. There was the study recently that attempted to prove that the migratory patterns of bees were being thrown off by our cell phone useage. This would be a good example of a species needed some sort of protection. Not saying the gov't is doing a good job (or come to think of it, anything), but this is a spot where peoples whim (market forces) may not be enough to prevent harm. [/ QUOTE ] I see. "People's whim" = market forces = harm, yet "politician's whim/bureaucrat's whim/lobbyist's whim/special interest group's whim/YOUR whim" = not harm. Why do I even bother? Count me out. I concede whatever bizarro argument was going on here.
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#30
06-29-2007, 12:13 AM
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Re: Bald Eagle off the endangered species list
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Aren't your oil subsidies enough to shut you people up? [/ QUOTE ] No, No. In addition to oil subsidies, we also demand, no sales tax, no income tax, legal marijuana, free road kill for the poor, no property tax for the elderly, and the unbridled ability to rape the Federal government for even more revenues. We also attempted, in Muldoon, to hire our own personal police force, the city's was too expensive and not efficient enough, but either the city or the State sued, so we lost that one.
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