Love it or leave it...put up or shut up...and other such sentiments

[plzleenowhammy]

ppl would go to acland to produce drugs, guns etc and sell them in the black markets of the u.s. causing u.s. to bomb acland to smithereens.

[bkholdem]

The other day I was thinking of the same thing and how it pertains to all people who want to control other people. Me and my friends and others all across the world want to live in peace and not force our ways on others. I think that people who want to force their will on others can change or:

It is better to keep my idealistic and perfectionistic attitudes to myself than to inflict them on others who have no desire to become like I want them to be. If I cannot live with this reality, then it would be better for me to leave the situation than to inflict others with my rigidity, irrationality, unhealthiness, and over-controlling, ``better-than-thou'' attitudes.

http://www.coping.org/control/idealism.htm

Non government people got here (the planet) first. It is the natural way to be.

[AlexM]

[ QUOTE ]
Obviously there are levels of tolerable oppression. I guess my understanding of how oppressive ACers thought the current system was wrong.

Let me put it this way...I have never been in a situation where I felt oppressed ALL THE TIME - where every transaction was oppressive, where walking down the street I felt oppressed because of the terrible monopolistic power of government. I have never felt that the current system is so oppressive that the only way for it not to be oppressive is its dismantling.

If I felt that way, I can't imagine that I'd stick around.

[/ QUOTE ]

Indeed, but where can we go?

[elwoodblues]

His position is very different than the AC position. He has an implicit (if not explicit) assumption that SOME government is fine.

[ QUOTE ]
That, however, is not true. I love this country. I’m deliriously happy with the way it was set up

[/ QUOTE ]

That is very different than the AC position.

[AlexM]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi Elwood,

Here is why:

John Silveira

Sorry no Cliff Notes now, as I must go out. It's a one-page easy read and puts it very well.

[/ QUOTE ]

Very nice.

[UATrewqaz]

Because words are easy and actions are hard.

People talk ideas and ideologies alot more strongly than they actually believe them or are willing to act on them.

[AlexM]

[ QUOTE ]
His position is very different than the AC position. He has an implicit (if not explicit) assumption that SOME government is fine.

[ QUOTE ]
That, however, is not true. I love this country. I’m deliriously happy with the way it was set up

[/ QUOTE ]

That is very different than the AC position.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's different, but not very. The same belief in individualism is there, and it's also an obvious much lesser evil. I mean, we're talking about a government that doesn't even tax its people except through import/export taxes. In such an environment, it's much more viable for ACism to eventually come about, and if it doesn't, it's at least only mildly oppressive. Personally, as an ACist who accepts dealing with the real world (because ACism on Earth in our lifetimes is a fantasy), I would be ecstatic to live in a U.S. that followed the original constitution (with the gender and racial equality that were later added).

[AlexM]

[ QUOTE ]
Because words are easy and actions are hard.

People talk ideas and ideologies alot more strongly than they actually believe them or are willing to act on them.

[/ QUOTE ]

What you say is true, but it doesn't really change the fact that the best chances still lie here.

[Dan.]

[ QUOTE ]
Because I shouldn't have to leave. Because the other alternatives are worse. Because I would rather stay and try to make a change, however futile the effort. Who is worse, someone who doesn't like the status quo and tries to peacefully convince others to agree with him that a sea change needs to occur, or someone who tells theat person to STFU and GTFO?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't mean to be derogatory, but I might be. Apologies in advance. But last I checked you don't vote. And I've never heard of ACists getting together in a big rally, drawing in people and educating them. So how exactly are you making a change? In your spare time on 2p2, preaching mostly to the converted?

Either you don't believe that strongly in your claims of being oppressed, or you don't care that much. It really wouldn't be that difficult to make huge strides toward AC under the current system. Vote in some Libertarians for 1. If the people en masse do not believe in the current system, the current system will go away.

[Borodog]

[ QUOTE ]
Obviously there are levels of tolerable oppression. I guess my understanding of how oppressive ACers thought the current system was wrong.

Let me put it this way...I have never been in a situation where I felt oppressed ALL THE TIME - where every transaction was oppressive, where walking down the street I felt oppressed because of the terrible monopolistic power of government. I have never felt that the current system is so oppressive that the only way for it not to be oppressive is its dismantling.

If I felt that way, I can't imagine that I'd stick around.

[/ QUOTE ]

Let me get this straight. You live in a land that you love that has something deeply [censored] up with it, and rather than try to change it, you'd just leave? That's a cop out. I'd rather stay and fight the good fight, no matter how difficult or futile, than take my toys and move to Antarctica.