odd one.

[dark_horse]

loose live 10/20 halfkill game. we are 7 handed, the other players are loose and somewhat aggressive, with two calling stations. i have a TAG image, am winning, and have a good table image. the player to my left is also a TAG, a thinking player, and is aware of my skill level. he is somewhat tricky though, especially in big pots (which i think is a leak in his game). he is in a neutral mood and is winning maybe a little. we have a lot of respect for each other's play and have played together many times in the past.

this is not a kill pot.

3 limpers, i complete with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], TAG is in the BB and checks his option.

flop comes 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].

i check, hoping to check raies someone, but it gets checked around.
turn comes 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].

i bet, TAG raises. everyone folds back to me.

ideas?

[BenA]

Against this particular opponent, I say 3-bet, calldown. You are behind only KK, 33, 88, K3, 83, and KK is out of the question. Chances are he is betting a crappy king, and eight, or a small pocket pair. He could be semi-bluffing a flush draw (picked up or from the flop), or even bluff-raises that paired 3 because of the turn action. Since he is a good player, a convincing argument might be made for calling the raise and just calling a river. On the same token, however, your respect for eachother's play often means that he is either value-betting/thinning with a king or reading you for nothing. IMHO, its an easy 3-bet, call down... If he 4-bets, you obviously have a problem. And many will argue to fold. But in this case, this opponent might know that factor. I still think his K or 8 should be called down (giving you the better 2 pair), plus you usually have 4 outs to improve if behind.

[bakku]

bet the flop, i have no idea why you went for a c/r here

[rt1]

Based on what you said I think we can find a fold here.

1) He is tricky in big pots... this is not a big pot.
2) He respects your play.
3) He knows youre a winner in the game.


Bet this flop every time. No excuse for not betting here.

If you think he will raise a flush draw here hoping to gain some folding eq on the river then call and c/c the river. 3-betting this turn is just bad.

[cgrohman]

Unless i read this wrong, villian is in the BB in an unraised pot which means he could have any 3. I think 3 betting would be a mistake.

[Rock Chalk]

since his range is huge in this hand and you can beat alot of hands, i don't think 3-betting is out of the question on the turn. check calling is not a bad option.
Has he ever raised out of the blinds before, or does he complete/check his option concealin big pairs?
You are also loosing to AA here as well, but not as likely.

[Chipspin]

If I were this TAG, this is how I might play a weak king. Let the button bet, then c/r the flop.

My thought process: If it gets checked around on the flop, and the guy on my right bets, his 8 or flush draw is no good -- and he'll have a tough time calling me here with a weak king. If he's actually got a 3, he'll 3-bet it and I'll fold. And players in later positions would have probably taken a stab with a pair of 3s on the flop. They don't have trips. I bump it.

I probably call down.

[vmacosta]

Call the turn and donk the river, particularly if its a red card.

[Yads]

Pot is small, I fold here, he may have a weak king, but there is a good chance he has the 3. In the heat of the battle though I likely call down. Obviously bet the flop though, but you knew that.

[dark_horse]

thanks for all the responses. i folded. it was an unraised pot, he is rarely tricky in small pots, he does like to semibluff heads up with a flushdraw in small pots, but he's smart enough not to do that with players behind him, as there is more value in going for overcalls with a drawing hand multiway in a small pot. i think the majority of the time i'm beaten in this spot. if the pot were bigger i'm not folding. if we're heads up i'm NEVER folding.

he could have any 3, and if he had any king i believe he would have bet the flop. it was a difficult decision, but i folded. he didn't show.

also, i don't think betting the flop is as obvious as you're all making it out to be. check/raising with strong hands in unraised pots adds deception to your game and earns you free cards in the future, especially when playing against the same opponents day in and day out, often shorthanded, as is the case in this game. (granted, i didn't mention that part) as long as playing deceptively doesn't give up too much edge, i believe it's important to mix it up. i'm betting this flop in this spot about half the time.