Ichiro and a hypothetical question for stats/Sabermetrics folks - Page 6

mo42nyy · #51 09-04-2007, 01:21 PM

no i agree youll catch some balls behind second base that you wouldnt have other wise but you're still a lot better off as a hitter with the runners in motion and guys out of postion in the long run
You're actually doing exactly what you accuse me of doing

As for managers- I dont have any faith in most managers

Just because managers wouldnt put guys in all sorts of craxy positions does not mean that it would be best to do so.

DO you actully think more balls are hit right up the middle than where players traditionally play the field?

You and Thayr both like to imply things and when someone disagrees with it you claim its not what you were saying to begin with.

jogsxyz · #52 09-04-2007, 03:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, exactly. You didn't see Rickey Henderson walking, did you?

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/h/henderi01.shtml

Henderson lifetime numbers are
.279 BA
.401 OBP
.421 SLG

Can't find his walks. But his OBP is 122 points higher
than his BA.

jogsxyz · #53 09-04-2007, 04:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[
I thought you had it backwards. A very fundamental part of this "new, hypothetical HR approach" is going to be taking more pitches. You said earlier that if he stops swinging at everything, he'd stop being Ichiro. Well, the whole thread is about him completely changing his approach to hitting, so I'm not sure why you think you can dismiss this aspect of it. He can just start hitting twice as many HRs, no problem there, but taking pitches? Impossible! ???

[/ QUOTE ]

Not thinking of taking pitches. Thinking more protecting
the plate. Foul off more pitches.

vhawk01 · #54 09-04-2007, 04:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[
I thought you had it backwards. A very fundamental part of this "new, hypothetical HR approach" is going to be taking more pitches. You said earlier that if he stops swinging at everything, he'd stop being Ichiro. Well, the whole thread is about him completely changing his approach to hitting, so I'm not sure why you think you can dismiss this aspect of it. He can just start hitting twice as many HRs, no problem there, but taking pitches? Impossible! ???

[/ QUOTE ]

Not thinking of taking pitches. Thinking more protecting
the plate. Foul off more pitches.

[/ QUOTE ]

His strategy for hitting more home runs is to foul off more pitches? As opposed to what? I'm confused. Do you mean that there are pitches that he currently hits for infield singles that he could, if he wanted to, foul off instead, to wait for a more homerable pitch?

Just btw, I absolutely love discussions like this, because a significant number of people apparently think Ichiro is some sort of superhuman alien robot being who has megapowers. I love the guy who said he would try to hit the bottom half of the ball and not the top half, and this part about fouling pitches off instead of putting them in play is funny too. Guys who foul pitches off a lot are guys with ridiculous hand eye coordination, guys like Rose and Williams and Ichiro. And they might even claim they are fouling them off "intentionally." But what that means is that they are able to get wood on a pitch that strikes most guys out, not that they could put that ball in play if they wanted to they just choose not to. Thats insane. If they have that much bat control they would chalk doubles every single time up.

vhawk01 · #55 09-04-2007, 04:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
no i agree youll catch some balls behind second base that you wouldnt have other wise but you're still a lot better off as a hitter with the runners in motion and guys out of postion in the long run
You're actually doing exactly what you accuse me of doing

As for managers- I dont have any faith in most managers

Just because managers wouldnt put guys in all sorts of craxy positions does not mean that it would be best to do so.

DO you actully think more balls are hit right up the middle than where players traditionally play the field?

You and Thayr both like to imply things and when someone disagrees with it you claim its not what you were saying to begin with.

[/ QUOTE ]

I specifically said "add up the line drive DPs and then the balls up the box that would usually be hits and you are starting to get there." This makes it pretty clear I didn't imply that these would cancel out all the extra hits you get because of a vacated hole, just that they compensate for it somewhat, and potentially more than you'd think.

lastchance · #56 09-04-2007, 04:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, exactly. You didn't see Rickey Henderson walking, did you?

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/h/henderi01.shtml

Henderson lifetime numbers are
.279 BA
.401 OBP
.421 SLG

Can't find his walks. But his OBP is 122 points higher
than his BA.

[/ QUOTE ]
JoA was being sarcastic.

.Alex. · #57 09-04-2007, 04:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Add in the line drive DPs and then all the balls that are hard hit back up the box that turn into DPs because the guy is covering and you start making up that ground quickly.

[/ QUOTE ]
I assume that the additional line drive DPs are way more than offset by the ground ball DPs that are prevented from sending the runner, which I don't think has been mentioned yet.

mo42nyy · #58 09-04-2007, 04:42 PM

vhawk

you said

start making up that ground quickly not just making up
if i interpreted that wrong then i apoligize
However I dont think line drive dps or balls roped right to a guy who is now standing behind second put that big of a dent into all the extra hit you get when the runner is on the move.