How much edge in super fast structure?

[mjm]

Structure:

5 handed sng
1,000 starting chips
Blinds increase every 3 hands
Blinds start at 10/20 and double (20/40, 40/80, 80/160)

How much of an edge can a player who has sound sng strategy knowledge have in this type of structure even against random donks? Anyone got any example ROI's over a decent sample in this structure?

If you regard 100 buy-ins as a standard bankroll for sng's, would you want more to play with this structure? If so how many buy-in's?

Any thoughts appreciated.

[BradleyT]

I think your edge would be lower. Take the opposite approach where blinds increase every 300 hands - your edge should be really big because donks play too many hands when the pot size doesn't dictate playing hands. Here the blinds go up so fast (after 12 hands you're at 160/320 correct?) that the donks are most likely playing more correct just by playing their donk hands.

[mjm]

I agree the solid players edge will be lower, my concern would be that it is so low to be virtually negligible and the whole thing one giant crapshoot.

I was thinking of using these tourneys to have a go at an sng leaderboard, but it only becomes viable if I can mantain a 5-8% ROI at the $22's. Under a standard structure my expectation is 15% ROI at this level, but i'm not sure even the modest 5-8% is acheivable.

After 9 hands you have virtually no re-raise fold equity, after 12 hands virtually no fold equity and after 15 hands you have to call with any 2 from the blinds due to the pot odds!

[citanul]

this depends on your opponents. if your opponents are horrid at the late game in a variety of ways your edge could be enormous in these things. if they are tough late game players your edge is going to be tiny.

[Slim Pickens]

What is the payout structure?

[GrinDedDown]

Yeah I think that it would be very hard to turn a profit that would make it worth playing these games and the problem is that after the rake, you will probably be break even at best. No FE on any of your plays after 12 hands.

[mjm]

[ QUOTE ]
What is the payout structure?

[/ QUOTE ]

Top 2 70/30. The problem I find is the structure makes it difficult for even donks to play that bad at the endgame.

Typical scenario 13 hands in you are on the bubble 3 left...average stack is 1650 and the blinds 160/320 so avg stack of 5bb's. 3 hands later blinds are 320/640. I guess it must be exploitable to some degree, it just seems so slight. But given that avg tourney time is around 10mins even a small long term edge could be very profitable.

[Slim Pickens]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What is the payout structure?

[/ QUOTE ]

Top 2 70/30.

[/ QUOTE ]

In a nutshell, bad players make fewer really awful mistakes when the payout is closer to winner-take-all. Make it 60/40 and a lot more of their bubble calls get a lot worse.

[mjm]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah I think that it would be very hard to turn a profit that would make it worth playing these games and the problem is that after the rake, you will probably be break even at best. No FE on any of your plays after 12 hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

I should add that what has got me interested in this structure is one of the smaller euro sites is doing a promo sng monthly leaderboard whereby 20% of all rake payed by sng players on the site goes into the pot for the monthly leaderboard cash prizes. (leaderboard based purely on number of 1st place finishes)

I figure that there will be so much dead money in this pot from the recreational players, and those that play the slower structure sngs etc.. that if I grind out the fastest structure available I have a good shot of doing well on the leaderboard the cash from that plus 25% rb and a small roi could be a nice monthly profit.