Is this why I'm an overall loser with AA? - Page 2

lfairban · #11 10-06-2007, 05:29 AM

I'm a NL-> limit both micro

Call me a whimp, but I am folding to the ck/r on the flop.

When playing NL, I only call raises and ck/r if I have something very good (or my concentration falters). There are 4 hands that would have called your pfr that have you beat. DB said that if someone bets into you after a pfr, they are saying they can beat a big hand. This goes double for a ck/r.

The flop bet is fine, but don't get overinvolved unless your As improve or you flop a flush draw. Most people win a small pot or lose a big one with As/Ks. (See SS)

In answer to your TP question, yes.

DeathDonkey · #12 10-06-2007, 05:58 AM

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You guys are crazy, this is a turn fold to his bet out I think and its gotta be close to a fold to his flop CR. If he is a competent LAG TAG 2+2er he isn't checkraising this flop with one pair, once you call his big flop CR he isn't expecting you to fold the turn.

-DeathDonkey

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DD,

So you don't think hes check raising the flop here with a draw ever?

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I definitely think he could be, but I also definitely think when you call his flop raise he has to be some kind of stupid to make that big bet on the turn with stacks the way they are. He has to put you on at least top pair and top pair generally goes broke there.

-DeathDonkey

djj6835 · #13 10-08-2007, 12:24 PM

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I definitely think he could be, but I also definitely think when you call his flop raise he has to be some kind of stupid to make that big bet on the turn with stacks the way they are. He has to put you on at least top pair and top pair generally goes broke there.

-DeathDonkey

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Seems like like villain leading the turn would be the exact opposite of some kind of stupid if you want to fold an overpair.

edit: to clarify there are plent of villains who will call this flop checkraise with the intention of folding to further action so leading the turn again with a draw is fine since you have tremendous fe against some villains and some showdown equity agasinst others. You also need to consider hand balancing, especially against a reg.

DeathDonkey · #14 10-08-2007, 06:25 PM

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there are plent of villains who will call this flop checkraise with the intention of folding to further action

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If this is true you are clearly right, I just don't think this is true online at these stakes.

-DeathDonkey

Surf · #15 10-09-2007, 02:43 AM

Alobar,

If we're calling the flop raise(and it is profitable to do so) then the turn plays itself - as you played it.

That said, many players will flatcall JJ bb vs utg (and occasionally KK for deception, but that is rare) so we are worried about KJ/JJ/KK(discounted) and 77 for "legit" hands. He could also have combo draws etc. If this is his range(2pr, sets, combo draws) then we're not really stoked to get it in even on a blank turn like this one. He needs to be able to have alot of draws (bare QT, occasionally running a bluff w/ a gutshot, etc) to make this worthwhile.

If that is not the case I don't mind a flop fold, utg vs bb is very different from btn vs bb and this flop is all over your utg raising range, he certainly has to be worried you have a set/2pr/tptk/AA.

Surf

Verde · #16 10-09-2007, 07:27 AM

Does anyone play the hand different preflop?
Remember Triskaidekaphobia!

Surf · #17 10-09-2007, 05:30 PM

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Does anyone play the hand different preflop?
Remember Triskaidekaphobia!

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aside from LRR'ing hero doesn't have too many options. Raising 6-8xBB with big pairs and nothing else is not going to cut it, and having to "mix it up" with hands by building huge pots OOP is not a good idea either.

Postflop is tough with these stack sizes, but do-able, and generally better than the alternative.

Surf