Professional No-Limit Hold 'em Volume 1 Review Thread

[jeffnc]

[ QUOTE ]
If you really needed the book to help you with this river decision you need to reevaluate your game.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you need to reevaluate your post reading skills. That's not what he meant. Obviously it was an easy river decision because of how he played the hand earlier. If he had played the hand different earlier (starting with limping), then he could indeed have been faced with a tough river decision.

[Sam Spade]

Many players are lazy and want a cookie cutter NL book that walks them through the play of every hand and every possible variation of play the could arise from preflop to river. To attempt this type of book would be a disaster as most NL hands really do "depend".

Many of us cut our teeth on limit. We have the concepts of solid limit play ingrained in our minds, and, as such, we would like to have a NL cookbook. I am not a great player, but I am smart enough to know that if you try to play NL with a set list of rules and plays, the better players will eventually adjust and take your money.



Cliff Notes:

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[jeffnc]

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I don't find the book horrible but I think it gives a fake sense of security to those who want a quick cookbook recipe to beat poker.

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Frankly, it sounds like you're the one looking for a cookbook. The authors are giving you concepts to play with. Obviously strong opponents are not going to allow you to do things that make the game easy to play. That's why they're strong opponents. If all opponents in a game are applying optimal strategy and theory, then it approaches an irresistable force/immovable object scenario.

[jeffnc]

[ QUOTE ]
My only gripe with the book is that it seems you are trying to provide a do it all formula so that players don't take it upon themselves to get better postflop. Most of the examples of SPR are basically I raise x amount so I can pot,pot,pot get it all in. I just feel that this kind of thinking basically makes a player a bot

[/ QUOTE ]

If it makes you uncomfortable, then just think of this book kind of like a book on cheating. You're not going to do it, but you know other players are, so you need to know what it looks like so you can combat it.

Now, go crush those bots!

[jeffnc]

[ QUOTE ]
[But most players don't shortstack. Poker is not about shortstacking and it never will. Poker will always be about postflop maneuvering.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not if your opponents play with short stacks.

[binions]

One of the nice things about SPR is if you build your target SPR, hit your hand, and commit, who cares if they flopped a set or 2 pair or a flush draw that comes in on the turn, etc. . .

You did your job. You expect to make money most of the time when you build your target SPR and hit the hand you were trying to make. But you also expect that they will outflop you sometimes and outdraw you others.

So, when they do, it's easier to swallow. In other words, you reduce the tilt factor.

Another nice thing is that lots of players have trouble folding when the pot gets sizable. For example, I am in the BB with AQ in a 5-10 PL game. 3 limpers. I raise ~8% of my stack. All 3 call me. Flop comes QJX. I bet the pot. EP thinks a bit and then pushes with KQ. He's a player, like many, that usually will not fold if the pot gets built and he has a decent piece of it or a decent draw.

I call it "Big Pot Syndrome."

[tightymcfish]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you really needed the book to help you with this river decision you need to reevaluate your game.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you need to reevaluate your post reading skills. That's not what he meant. Obviously it was an easy river decision because of how he played the hand earlier. If he had played the hand different earlier (starting with limping), then he could indeed have been faced with a tough river decision.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope I read it correctly, any way he played it, it wouldn't have been a tough river decision either way, ducy? (I am not saying that you should mash the call button cuz you have a set either)

[tightymcfish]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't find the book horrible but I think it gives a fake sense of security to those who want a quick cookbook recipe to beat poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Frankly, it sounds like you're the one looking for a cookbook. The authors are giving you concepts to play with. Obviously strong opponents are not going to allow you to do things that make the game easy to play. That's why they're strong opponents. If all opponents in a game are applying optimal strategy and theory, then it approaches an irresistable force/immovable object scenario.

[/ QUOTE ]

No sir I do not want a cookbook because there is none and never will be. They are not giving concepts sir, NLTHP gave concepts this book gives concrete examples that show that if you bet x all you have to do is pot, pot ,pot and you will get the money.

This maybe be true against the weak live fish but this does not hold true for the tougher online games 5/10 and up. Maybe even 3/6. Players will adjust to your hand ranges and pot pot pot will be giving them money or not getting payed at all. That is my only issue with the book nothing else. I think the information is very good against the fish but not that great against the better regs in today's games.
And if you couldn't beat the fish already without this book well then....

[Sunny Mehta]

[ QUOTE ]
I noticed that suited aces are not included in the "target SPRs for starting hands" section in pp. 207-210, although they are discussed in the book.

Presumably they go in the "drawing/stealing hands" section, with desired SPR 13+, unless the villains are dumb enough to give action with second pair etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi Guy,

You got the gist of it. We'll have a whole section on suited aces in Volume Two.

-S

[7n7]

[ QUOTE ]
One of the nice things about SPR is if you build your target SPR, hit your hand, and commit, who cares if they flopped a set or 2 pair or a flush draw that comes in on the turn, etc. . .

You did your job. You expect to make money most of the time when you build your target SPR and hit the hand you were trying to make. But you also expect that they will outflop you sometimes and outdraw you others.

So, when they do, it's easier to swallow. In other words, you reduce the tilt factor.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the kind of thinking I'm a little hesitant to adopt after reading this book. I'm still not quite finished...I actually started over on the SPR section... so haven't got to the adjustments part yet.

It seems like you're saying, if you build your target SPR and decide you're going to commit, then don't lay your hand down ever. Or am I mis-reading and you're stating that you're making your commitment decision on the flop (not before)?