High-end Dining: Expectations and Reviews

[citanul]

NorCal,

I don't have any experience at all with SF restaurants, though there are a couple of places reviewed in this thread. Hopefully El Diablo or one of the other SF residents will help you find a romantic spot.

With respect to wine:

1) Many places do carry non-wine beverages, even high-end ones, to offer patrons who don't like wine.

2) There is no place that will "look down at you" or "get angry with you" for not ordering wine

3) Many people who think they hate wine just haven't found wines they like yet. This isn't true for everyone, some people just don't like it. That's OK too. If however, you can put together a list of things you don't like about the wines you've tried, a good sommelier or even wine shop person should be able to either tell you if you don't like all wine or if there is some other type of wine you should try before giving up. For instance almost everyone likes a good moscato [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] The absolute worst thing that happens is that you wind up with a $10 glass of wine you hate, and if you order by the glass they'll possibly just take it away if you hate it. (Same thing likely holds for a bottle that they "think" you'll like even though you don't like wine: if you don't, they open it, and then you send it away because you think it tastes bad. Clarify this with the server beforehand.)

[El Diablo]

NCJ,

Gary Danko and Dining Room at the Ritz would be perfect for that kind of evening. The Ritz is a more over-the-top romantic environment, I'd suggest that.

Not ordering wine is absolutely not a problem in any way at any of the places I've mentioned.

Restaurants like these are a good opportunity for you to tell the sommelier that you are not into wine at all, but if he has a suggestion for a glass to try you'd be interested in giving it a try. I'd suggest trying that a couple of times and giving it a chance. If you don't like it, no big deal, just one glass of wine. If you do, great.

[britspin]

In the last year or so I've been to my first set of really high end restaurants in the UK- Mirabelle, Orrery, Le Gavroche, Winteringham Fields, Locanda locatelli, St John and Petrus.

The first time I went to a high end restaurant I was actually uncomfortable and nervous. My expectation was really good food, but I felt out of place- it took a lot that night to get me to just relax- I was over cautious and intimidated into relatively uninteresting choices (I didn't have the nerve to ask why i'd like woodpigeon, for example.)

Now, I've become much more confident and much more willing to trust the restaurant.

My expectation at this level is that the food and service is always outstanding, that the restaurant goes to real effort not to impress me but to make me happy.
Indeed, I now assume the food will be excellent (if not it goes back) and now look for something else.

What I'm looking for now is something breathtaking, something that I will remember and look back on long after the meal is over.

That doesn't have to be the food- service, ambience, all could be the special thing.

As for the restaurants, I'd recommend all of them, and go back to all, except perhaps Petrus. they're all excellent in their different ways.

What I remember though are the things that have hit that "outstandingly memorable" criteria. Two examples..

Silvano Giraldin, The Maitre'd at the Gavroche. Pure class. Totally accomodating, utterly charming, focussed on your enjoyment. I went there once and our main courses were late, I happened to catch the eye of the waiter and explained the problem, and as a result the Maitre D, came, apologised, explained he'd had to send a dish back as it wasn't right, and served us personally for the remainder of the meal.

Bear in mind that he is one of the leading Maitre'd's in the world, and I was a nobody on their budget lunch menu. Such professionalism and service.

Cheese at the Winteringham Fields: It's half midnight, we're the last people in the restaurant and it's time for the cheese course, a speciality there. Do we get hurried through? No chance.

Because we love cheese, the General manager spends half an hour with us, sampling cheeses tasting with us, explaining his choices- at the end, he sends us a complimentary glass of wine to go with some cheese we'd paricularly enjoyed, together with details of where to buy it outside of the restaurant.

As for the food- So many stunning dishes- The pheasant ravioli at Locanda locatelli. Pigs trotter at mirabelle (and at Gavroche.. mmmm), the bone marrow at St John, a souffle at Orrery. each of these dishes I can recall with awe and wonder. If I had to pick one, it would be St John's Bone marrow. Simple, delicious, addictive. i'd go back to that restaurant just for that.

[NorCalJosh]

Sorry for bumping a month old thread, but the anniversary i spoke about came and went, and we ended up going to chez panisse, which was asked about in this thread but never reviewed.

I originally intended to go to the ritz or gary danko's, but ended up procrastinating and found myself trying to make a reservation a week in advance. neither of those places had a cancellation, but chez panisse did have one, so we were set, a downstairs dinner at chez panisse at 9:15 on the 10th. I was extremely curious about how it would go, as obviously it is credited as the birthplace of california cuisine etc, but lately i'd been hearing some reviews (even from el diablo in this thread) that mentioned maybe it was getting a little bit old and over rated.

this was the menu for the night

Tuesday, April 10 $65
Green and white asparagus salad with farm egg
Spring vegetable minestrone
Grilled Wolfe Ranch quail with roasted onion sauce,
artichoke and black olive ragout, and garden lettuces
Rhubarb tart with muscat sabayon

The gf and I arrived at about 8:55. the restaurant is very cozy, with bowls of the fresh menu items on display when you enter. a very nice atmosphere, although not super romantic. we were escorted to the upstairs bar for drinks while we waited for our table. she chose some white wine or other, i had a moonlight death and taxes. we were escorted to our table at about 9:10, and the waitress was there immediately with a nice little ricotta crostini thing that i could have very easily become addicted to if i was given a full plate. so far so good.

the wine guy came over and i mentioned my dilemna as was suggested a couple posts up (i just havent been able to like wine). chez panisse doesnt have as extensive of a wine cellar as a lot of other places apparently, but i was sure he could find something for me. he was very understanding and over the course of the night brought me several different wines to try, and i actually did manage to find a couple that were enjoyable. i have no sophistication in that area, so i was happy but i wont try and go any further.

the salad was brought out, and i continued to be impressed. the asparagus were delicious, and the combination of flavors with the asparagus, egg and pickled beets used for garnish really worked well. it really didnt taste like any asparagus i'd had before, although i cant really put my finger on what was different. it still made my pee smell however.

the second course was a vegetable minestrone soup, which was my least favorite dish of the night. it was something i wouldnt have ordered if i'd seen it on a menu, and when it came, it really felt underseasoned and bland. it had a mint garnish which made it quite refreshing, and once i added some salt and pepper, it was fairly enjoyable, but definitely something i could have lived without.

the quail course came next, and after the slight disappointment of the soup, i was hoping for a home run. I wasn't disappointed. the quail was cooked perfectly, seasoned perfectly, juicy and delicious. the sauce was delicious and i sopped up everything that was left of it with the bread when i finished. it looked like there was a slight alteration to the menu, as the black olive and artichoke ragout was replaced by... something that wasnt ragout. some kind of prepartion of lightly fried fingerling potato and artichoke heart. it was the most perfect potato preparation i've ever had. i was in love with the potatoes. probably my favorite part of the entire meal. it was like the absolute perfect version of delicious kfc fries. but better? i'm not so hot at explaining.

the waitress came by and left a dessert drink menu and asked if we'd like a few minutes to enjoy the wine and conversation before the dessert was brought out, which we accepted. we ordered a french pressed pot of coffee, and then the rhubarb tart was brought out. i don't know why, but on my first bite, i was expecting something very different from what it actually was, and was quite shocked at the flavor. very tart, but with a nice bit of sweetness cut through. once my mouth knew what to expect, it was very good, with a nice light crust. very pleasing, and i'm glad it was included as it was probably not something i would have picked out off a menu.

after dessert, we finished our coffee and they brought us a couple small candies, one was a little dark chocolate drop with some candied ginger orange peel on it that i loved, the other was some kind of small pastry with jelly on top, which my girlfriend preferred.

the total bill came to ~$250, and i was very very happy with it. the service was attentive but not intrusive, the pacing was great, the food was delicious. I wouldn't say that i had a transcendent experience, but i definitely feel like i got my moneys worth. there were really no dishes that i thought i could only get at that location, and i think that's probably what people mean when they say it's over rated. it was a delicious meal, but for a restaurant consistently rated in the top 25 in the world, i think you really expect something a little bit more over the top.. we did go on a tuesday night, and the menu gets a little more extensive (and expensive) over the course of the week, so i may give it another shot on a friday or saturday night and see what it does for me.

[owsley]

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for what i would consider "high end" i expect more than i expect.

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To get that Nirvana-moment where everything with the company, locale, food, wine is perfect, the 5 seconds where you realize how lucky you are to be living and how wonderful life at its best is.

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these are great quotes

[El Diablo]

All,

WD-50 in New York.

Wylie Dufresne's restaurant. He is a highly recognized chef known for his "molecular gastronomy" style, which means using all sorts of crazy techniques to work with food.

I read a bunch of reviews before going and the general consensus was that the food was good but not necessarily great, but super creative and interesting. Also that the desserts are the real standouts.

Had a bunch of wine before dinner, so decided to try some of their unique cocktails with dinner. My friend had a vodka concoction w/ peppercorn and watermelon which he enjoyed. I had one bay fizz, vodka/bay leaf/egg white/lime? - super refreshing and delicious, and a rye/quince cocktail that was really great.

In place of bread they brought out this crisp sesame stuff like Indian papadum, very light, crisp, and delicious.

We got three apps:

Bone marrow, chestnuts, tonburi, pickled honshemeji .... 16
Corned duck, rye crsip, purple mustard, horseradish cream .... 14
Fried quail, banana tartar, nasturtium .... 16

The Corned Duck was just incredible. Very flavorful duck on a little rye crisp.

The quail was fine, nothing superb, and the banana it was served with was definitely unique, but more weird than awesome.

The bone marrow was a real out-there molecular gastronomy thing, little space-balls of marrow. Unfortunately, it tasted more like roe or other random little balls of stuff rather than intense marrow flavor, very underwhelming.

For mains we got:

Pork belly, radish, corn, miso-walnut, sour plum .... 28
Lamb loin, potato noodles, mustard crumbs, pretzel consomme .... 30

The pork belly was excellent. Fatty but not overwhelmingly so. The corn was basic but well done. Radish was standard. But the rest was in foam and mousse form and really innovative and flavorful. All the flavors worked together really well.

The lamb loin was done really well. The pretzel consomme was pretty subtle. Everything else was quite good, but nothing seemed really out there creativity wise except for some stuff which maybe was the mustard crumbs I guess, but tasted sort of like peanut brittle.

Overall, the food was just as expected. Good stuff, but didn't blow us away, however was pretty unique and interesting in presentation, technique, and flavor combinations.

By the way, the service was overall very solid. And the vibe of this place is awesome. Very casual, almost neighborhoody small restaurant feel. Very comfortable place to go to dinner, not pretentious at all.

Had a good conversation w/ the waiter about our dinner and told him we were really looking forward to dessert. When he found out I was here visiting from SF he brought us out a couple of glasses of delicious sweet sparkling wine to have with dessert. Very nice touch.

For dessert we ordered the $35 3-course tasting. 5-course is $45. I'd highly recommend coming here just to have dessert - it definitely blew away the food.

They started with a "pre-dessert" - a MUSHROOM chocolate tuile (round tubelike cookie thing). This was pretty crazy. My friend loved it, I liked it as well, but there was definitely a hint of mushroom taste that lingered and felt weird to me.

The first dessert was Yuzu, shortbread, spruce yogurt, pistachio - WOWOWOOWOOWOW. A yuzu custard that was really delicious and a variety of different pistachio presentations ranging from sauce to nuts! This was really incredible stuff.

Next came a pretty crazy dish which included a cauliflower foam and some grapefruit custard. Not quite as good, but super innovative and interesting and quite tasty.

Then we finished with Soft white chocolate, potato, malt, white beer ice cream. OK, the soft white chocolate, WOW, it was like a custard/chocolate sort of texture, just incredible. The potato sound strange, a little piece of baby potato, but somehow it actually kinda worked. The malt was a rich sauce that was WOW. There was also a white beer sauce that I liked, but I wasn't a big fan of the white beer ice cream, just a little too much for me. Still, overall, this dessert was just incredible.

With the check came a couple more little jelly concoctions that were quite tasty.

Check was $290 for two including tip.

I'd definitely recommend it for people who are very into food and just trying creative new stuff, it's definitely someplace worth trying - I'm probably gonna go back when I have more time and try the tasting menu ($125 for I think 8 small savory courses + 3 desserts). However, if you are not a super foodie type person, I would recommend you just go there and have the 5-course dessert tasting. That is definitely the highlight of the place and will blow you away. In fact, now that I think about it, I'll probably go back for cocktails and dessert instead of dinner.

[NoSoup4U]

I've been working my way through the most highly regarded sushi restaurants in New York and thought I'd share a few words on the most remarkable one of all, Masa. Masa is a temple of sushi. I was troubled by the set-up because it is located in the middle of a shopping center. It is a higher end location than it sounds, since other tenants include the NYC location of Per Se. Once inside, it is like another world. The room is small and sparsely furnished, in a classic clean lined Japanese style. We were seated at the sushi bar, which is an enormous single slab of blonde hinoki cypress sanded to a velvet texture that probably costs more than my car and had to be 30 foot long. It is not stained or polished, just a perfect specimen cared for meticulously. It seemed a talisman of the entire experience, simple and perfect. Speaking of expensive, Masa really redefined expensive. Dinner for two runs about $1,000 unless you don't drink. You can't save money by careful ordering, because there is no concept of ordering. There are no menus. Masayoshi will give you what he wants to give you and you'll like it. For this kind of cash, you expect every element to be perfect and I was not disappointed. Every ingredient was perfect. Masa told us that ingredients are flown in each day from all over the world and rejects many of them. We watched one of the apprentices slice up a thick slab of toro and reduce 20 pounds of tuna to two small triangular wedges. When asked, he said that the rest was not up to their standard.

The meal was served at a nice slow pace, with a variety of interesting dishes. Particular standouts included a risotto heavily flavored with Uni that made me really want to lick the plate. The tuna tartare was loaded with caviar and was so good I was literally unable to eat it without closing my eyes. I don't understand why, but it is true. There was a shabu-shabu fish, blowfish served both raw and tempura, grilled eel and others I can no longer remember. I was lulled into a kind of happy stupor, not knowing what new dish would arrive next. They brought hot towels three or more times during the meal and were always nearby with a refill of the glass or anything you could want.

Finally, after an hour or two of small dishes, we moved on to the sushi proper. It was dazzling. Each piece was served one at a time, while the chef judged our reactions and pondered the next selection. He urged us to eat with our hands and nodded in approval when we looked on in horror when the people next to us in the bar submerged their rice in soy sauce so that it was completely brown and dribbling. They also asked if he could serve the pieces without wasabi. This would be my only quibble with their service. In my view if you are willing to pay the bill, they should treat you as if you are the king. Masa was openly disdainful of their request to be served without wasabi. He asked us if we were OK with the fresh wasabi and I told him I wanted to eat it in whatever way he thought was best. From that point on, he never spoke to the other two customers. Each piece was seasoned and brushed with soy sauce or sprinkled with sea salt and dusted with lemon zest and one more delicious than the last. There were many items I've never had before or since. Of course, there was toro and otoro, but there were also clams and mackerel and varieties of mild and sweet whitefishes that apparently have no ready English translation. There was a ball of sushi rice rolled in diced black truffle (truffle made many appearances). When we hit the wall, he finished with a simple maki of chutoro that I manfully struggled to finish. There was some kind of fruit at the very end, but I could only manage a bite or two.

I don't think I've ever eaten at anywhere close to this good. We've also tried Sushi Yasuda, Jewel Bako and Sushi Gari. Seki and Kuruma are next up. We love Nobu and Morimoto, but consider them a different category altogether.

[El Diablo]

NoSoup,

Excellent report. Coincidentally, tonight at dinner my friend and I talked about how the only place neither of us had been that is on both of our current lists of "must-go" places is Masa. I recently read The Reach of a Chef by Michael Ruhlman (so-so book, nowhere near his amazing book The Soul of a Chef) where he described a Masa dinner in a way very similar to your description, but in much more length and detail. I'm going to go on an upcoming trip to NYC and I'm super-excited about it.

[StevieG]

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WD-50 in New York.

Wylie Dufresne's restaurant. He is a highly recognized chef known for his "molecular gastronomy" style, which means using all sorts of crazy techniques to work with food.


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El D,

Thanks for the great trip report. I very much want to eat a meal at WD-50. Sounds like the place delivers.

You might be interested in these video sof Wylie Dufresne explaining ingredients used at WD-50.

[J.Brown]

two great trip reports!

i now want to check out both and won't be able to do either until mid 08 at the earliest and it makes me depressed.