A very interesting spot-- 50nl - Page 5

BahhGawd · #41 08-21-2007, 06:01 AM

Dex,

You play good. But, having played with you, I know for a fact that you are thinking way more about these hands than pretty much all of the multi-tabling regulars. And while it will probably help you as you progress, it might seriously be a negative quality to have at this level, as you're often going to give people credit for moves that they're not capable of making.

I don't know your history with villain here (but from your description, my guess is that it is St4kesIsHigh... how close am I?)... particularly, how you've responded to his 4betting. If he knows you're 3betting him light, but have a real tight 4bet calling range, than it makes sense that his calling range here contains all pairs, even QQ+.

But as a 21/19, his range probably includes all suited connectors as well, especially in position as here.

I agree that he is floating this flop with a majority of pairs. Your flop bet is incredibly standard and your range is pretty much everything you've 3bet with.

But, after your flop bet, the pot size is pretty substantial, which makes me believe that any of the flush draws that have enough equity for villain to play aggressively(AsKs, 6s7s, 6s8s), he is going to do so on this flop, where he has substantial fold equity against your range.

Once he just calls the flop, I think you can eliminate most of those draws from his range, leaving some pocket pairs, 45,67, naked flush draws, sets and overpairs.

Once you bet the turn, regardless of how light you feel you can double barrel here, you are for all intents and purposes committing yourself to the hand. Therefore, villain's shove is definitely for straight value. There is absolutely no reason to believe that you are going to get away from your hand, so semibluffing here would not make any sense.

The question you need to answer is how light does villain think you are valuebetting here? Unless you have some sick history, I don't think he's doing it with a hand worse than JJ. I'm thinking 45, 44, 55, 77, QQ, KK, AA, and possibly 5s7s -- which I feel is the only spade hand to shove turn which does not shove flop. For sakes of adding a bluff (lol), I guess you can even throw 67 or 66 into the range and crunch your #s to see how a call looks.

But... vs a villain with these numbers... If you're even able to consider being ahead vs his shoving range here, than betting this turn is a huge mistake and check/raising allin is definitely a much better play.

Anyways, please post results.

inverted · #42 08-21-2007, 08:10 AM

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cf the turn and stop trying to outplay the TAGs OOP

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50nl is the nitty kitty game you are all used to anymore---- it is full of once prime 200nl players who realize they can beat nl50 close to as bad as they beat 200nl with 1/10th the risk and variance

higher level thinking is required in many situations and if you are c/f your entire 3betting range that is affected by the Q on the flop and a virtually blank turn--- then its somewhat of a leak

sure this time I may be wrong---- so i lose 150bb's if i call, but I dont think the turn play is bad and the call on the shove is probably marginally +ev

most people who are aggressive are used to getting played back at and they like playing a wide range of hands in position---- they float the flop with the intent of taking the pot away on the turn---- b/c of how powerful their line looks

this play is obviously miserable against an unknown or ur standard nl50 player

but this is a player who is a reg---- a thinking reg---- maybe not a great one---- and who is aggressive---- if you check he is stealing the turn with his entire range---- which is why you have to double barrel most of your range here---- then when he shoves you need to evaluate the line he took and come up with a list of holdings that he could play like this---- not just the obvious thinking--- god you must be beat, c/f turn comments ect

[/ QUOTE ]i was kinda interested in this so i just played a 30 min sesh of 50nl 6 max and it was a HUGE jokefest. 5 players limpin, minraise battles, limp shoving 50bbs with T3s from utg. i honestly couldnt believe it. so either u table select like ass or u r exagerating a bit.

EDIT:
PS
i ran at 73 bb/100 [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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Let me guess you ran this hot by floating 3bet pots!!!!

ssdex · #43 08-21-2007, 06:07 PM

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP ($31.75)
CO ($109.65)
Button ($47.70)
Hero ($75.90)
BB ($48.70)
UTG ($82.65)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, CO raises to $2, 1 fold, Hero raises to $6.5, 1 fold, CO calls $4.50.

Flop: ($13.50) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $11, CO calls $11.

Turn: ($35.50) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $28, CO raises to $92.15, Hero calls $30.40 (All-In).

River: ($152.30) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $152.30

Results in white below:
Hero has Jd Jc (two pair, jacks and sevens).
CO has Js Ts (one pair, sevens).
Outcome: Hero wins $152.30. CO wins $33.75.

traz · #44 08-21-2007, 06:09 PM

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This just seems like a classic Fgators-style post. I'm waiting for a results update showing how well OP played the hand for justification.

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Grunch · #45 08-21-2007, 06:12 PM

Nuts or air.