New Software: Holdem Manager

[Dazarath]

Thi software looks great. I have a question and a couple suggestions. First, how is the performance compared to PT?

Now, for the suggestions. I think having the ability to add rakeback/bonuses/B&M sessions would be nice. It wouldn't have to be anything too fancy. Like, even a separate tab which was just a blank spreadsheet would be nice. Right now, I use PT to keep track of my online play and a spreadsheet to keep track of everything else, but I think it'd be really nice to be able to keep all of my poker income in one place, ie. like your software.

I would also like the ability to filter imported hands. I don't know, I've always wanted this ability so that I can remove hands with too few players when importing datamined hands. It's not necessary though, but it would be convenient.

[KittyLiquor]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm actually more happy the higher the price is [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

and on a related note...

I'd actually like to see some sort of subscription fee. Less than the purchase price, but enought to give you incentative to keep the software updated.

I love PokerTracker, but it always worried me that something else comes out, no one continues to buy PT new, so the PT staff has no income, so they quit updating the software to handle the new hand histories.

------------Meow

[oracle3001]

KittyLiquor, do you mean along the lines of say an anti-virus package i.e. you purchase your product for x amount and you get a years worth of updates. After that you have to pay a subscription to continue to receive the latest stuff?

I don't like the idea of a subscription only system ala Sixth Sense for a standalone app. SS can at least claim to have to pay and maintain servers.

I personally don't mind the idea of the anti-virus approach, as long as the updates and new features keep coming on a regular basis i.e. we are funding a high level of continued support and development through the subscription fee.

[excession]

'I love PokerTracker, but it always worried me that something else comes out, no one continues to buy PT new, so the PT staff has no income, so they quit updating the software to handle the new hand histories.'

Well yes, but think I bought PT for $55 or something and got PAHUD free as I'd donated some $$ for its development. I don't know what the ROI for those products has been but it would make investing in MS stock as a start up poor by comparison I would expect, so we can hardly claim we haven't long ago had our monies worth out of them. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

If this is anywhere near as good as it looks then how long would it take to earn back say $100 or whatever anyway?

Just spending a day importing our PT DB and analysing them with the new tools would easily be worth $100 IMHO, nm once our HUD's start showing 3-betting ranges etc

One thing that the OP needs to do is make sure that the sites are happy to 'white list' the software for use like almost all of them do with PT and PO.

I would be very careful about building in any bespoke compatability with server-based datamining apps for example as use of these is in clear breach of TOS for most sites.

Oh and another important issue - try to make it easy to pay for - not just credit cards but by way of site transfers, NT (or equivalents) etc. Many folks literally keep poker money separate and psychologically view spending $100 of their 'real money' differently from $100 of their poker winnings.

[downrange]

I see references to NL, tourneys, etc. - is this geared toward NL like pt appears to be geared toward limit? What's "bb" here, is analysis more from NL perspective (if there is such a thing), etc.?

[oracle3001]

I don't think you could even start to put a figure of how many PTBB/100 both PT and PAHUD are worth to the serious player.

If you haven't made your money back on PT over the course of its existent you really need to spend more time studying your
game.

I, I think like a lot of others, are really hoping this new product takes things to a completely new level.

[fnord_too]

I'm not sure if you answered these yet, I didn't see them but I could have missed them:

1. Does this also support Omaha, and if so what flavors?
2. Do you have a target price for this application (when it gets out of beta) and what payment methods will you be accepting?
3. Doe this also have Sklansky dollar calculations?

About prima/microgaming: I could be very wrong here and this is a point I have been meaning to research. They store your hands locally in a small DB. You used to be able to export them as well from the site, and I believe the exported ones had mucked hole cards (whereas the locally stored ones do not). I am not sure if they stripped the export functionality from play check, I didn't see it when last I looked (a long time ago).

This looks great! I especially love the buttons for display on the HUD.

[rvg72]

ok, some more answers:

1) Performance can't even be compared between the two. It is written in C# 2.0, everything is multi threaded, I have ripped apart and redesigned the entire database many times to ensure performance is good with insanely large DB's etc.

2) You'll see an Income tab that is exactly that. It combines cash results with Tourney Winnings, Rakeback, Bonuses, manual entry of live games etc

3) Don't worry about filtering the import based on # players - just import everything and then filter later if you need to. You don't have to worry about huge DB's any more. Also, if the game suddenly goes to 3 handed you'll be happy that the HUD starts weighing the sample of hands with 3 players higher giving you more accurate data to work with.

4) Not sure about the pricing model - I don't really like subscription fees for a "stand alone" product. I'll need to work this out and maybe even put it out to a poll if I can't decide!

5) I'm pretty sure most SSNL and up players made their money back with Poker Tracker / PA HUD within days of buying it.

6) I'm not going to do anything that the sites don't like - for excample, the HUD will not have any calculations. It will just show information. So, you will know that xyz player raises unopened on the button 47% of the time and folds to a 3-bet 61% of the time but it will not tell you to raise with abc range of hands.

7) Credit Card / Paypal / Neteller will be there 100%. Party Poker transfer will very likely be there. Stars transfer will not. I'll probably add some other common Poker Transfer modalities as well. Will try to make this easy.

8) BB = Big Blind. HM is for all forms of Hold'em but you definately get a lot more value out of it with NL and NL tourney's due to a lot of the stats that focus on big pots (3/4 bet and more that I can't really talk about yet [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] )

9) No Omaha, sorry. However importing Omaha winnings into the Income tab should be ok.

10) No Sklansky buck calculations at this point. Hopefully PokerEV will support HM but otherwise it will be something I add at a later date.

rvg

[zook]

Looks awesome Roy. Can't wait to use it.

Not sure if this is a "duh" question, but will it be possible to import postgresql databases from Pokertracker if we haven't saved the original hhf's?

[rvg72]

[ QUOTE ]
Looks awesome Roy. Can't wait to use it.

Not sure if this is a "duh" question, but will it be possible to import postgresql databases from Pokertracker if we haven't saved the original hhf's?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi, unfortunately not... I guess an analogy would be, imgine you have a 10 megapixel image (ie the original hand history) and then you convert it to grey scale, drop it down to 800x600 and save it as a gif. No matter what you do you can't bring it back to that 10 megapixel image.

If I imported from the PT database structure without hand histories there would be way too much data missing which would make most of the stats misleading and in most cases outright wrong...

So, save your hand histories!!!

rvg