LO8 Flopped Med Flush 4 Handed

cgkid · #1 08-28-2007, 11:19 PM

This hand happened pretty early in the session so I don't have any specific reads at this point and the game was playing relatively loose and passive to this point but nothing extreme. Comments on all streets appreciated.

Full Tilt Poker
Limit Omaha Hi/Lo Ring game
Limit: $2/$4
9 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is BB with 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
3 folds, MP2 calls, 2 folds, Button calls, SB calls, Hero checks.

Flop: K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4SB, 4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP2 calls, Button folds, SB calls.

Turn: 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3.5BB, 3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, MP2 bets, SB calls, Hero calls.

River: 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6.5BB, 3 players)
SB bets, Hero calls, MP2 raises, SB 3-bets, Hero????

tvta · #2 08-29-2007, 12:01 AM

on the flop i tend to check/call the whole way with weak high high hands. i dont think betting is bad, but it keeps the hard decisions away. from the passive action on the flop/turn it looks like you may have the best flush since no one decided to pump it up earlier on. you need a read here but i would call simply because 2/4 is full of donkeys that play the low nuts like the nut nuts.

who knows - maybe even your 5 will win 1/2 [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Buzz · #3 08-29-2007, 12:23 AM

[ QUOTE ]
SB bets, Hero calls, MP2 raises, SB 3-bets, Hero????

[/ QUOTE ]cgkid - You bite the bullet and continue.

You opened the floodgates when you checked the turn. By checking the turn, you made it appear that you really don't have the nut flush after all. (Before you checked the turn, that was more of a possibility).

Hard to say why SB didn't directly raise on the turn. Perhaps he/she was planning to catch you in a whip-saw on the river. (Merely calling gets a call from you on the turn, and then another call when SB bets the river, as opposed to possibly knocking you out on the turn). Or perhaps SB simply made the nut low on the river and also has some mediocre high hand.

Hard to know what SB holds. Could be A4XY (the nut low), or could be any high hand, bet with an eye to knocking you out, or could include a better high hand than yours.

In my humble opinion, checking on the first betting round was correct. And I also think directly betting on the second betting round was correct. I think you made a mistake by checking on the third betting round (because your hand is easier for a shrewd opponent to read).

It's an ugly situation on the river. But I think you should continue. However, when you continue should you call or jam? Seems almost a coin flip to me.

Buzz

cgkid · #4 08-29-2007, 12:58 PM

Yeah, I betting the turn would have definitely been the best play. After playing at this table for a while I realized the sb was the type to wait until the river to raise with the nuts to make sure they held up. He had the nut flush on this hand and he did the same thing with a flopped nut straight later.

On the river I assumed it was going to capped and there was 12.5BBs in the pot so I had to be good ~1 out of 3. I called and the sb had A4 and the nut flush and the other guy had A4.

TxRedMan · #5 08-30-2007, 10:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
This hand happened pretty early in the session so I don't have any specific reads at this point and the game was playing relatively loose and passive to this point but nothing extreme. Comments on all streets appreciated.

Full Tilt Poker
Limit Omaha Hi/Lo Ring game
Limit: $2/$4
9 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is BB with 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
3 folds, MP2 calls, 2 folds, Button calls, SB calls, Hero checks.

Flop: K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4SB, 4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP2 calls, Button folds, SB calls.

Turn: 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3.5BB, 3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, MP2 bets, SB calls, Hero calls.

River: 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6.5BB, 3 players)
SB bets, Hero calls, MP2 raises, SB 3-bets, Hero????

[/ QUOTE ]

CG-

Marginal hands lead to marginal spots. I know that's redundant, but think about it for a second. If you're uncomfortable in marginal situations and feel that as a whole they're a disproportionately large leak in your game, approach marginal hands with that mentality when deciding your action.

I assume your reason for checking the turn was to avoid getting raised?

Fwiw, I wouldn't check the turn, but if I did it here, I'd check raise a lot of opponents who bet that turn card. A low is now possible, as is a straight, and when checked to on the turn that player will be betting a lot of hands. To demonstrate my point, if both playes checked to you on that turn and you had the nut straight (which also makes a mediocre low) wouldn't you consider betting it? My point is that the last player will bet a ton of hands in that spot, and when the SB just calls, this situation is highly indicative of the other two players playing for the low half of the pot and you having the high end locked up at the moment. Consider check raising here.

As for the river, I think the SB has either 45xx or A4xx. I see that line everytime someone makes the nut low on the river when the nut low gets counterfeited with the river card. Raising at this point doesn't make any sense, as it will only lose you money. So you call. When the last player to act raises, obviously you're not happy, but wouldn't you raise the river with the nut low and a decent high hand, such as a small flush or a straight, or the nut low and two pair?

I guess I can sum it up by saying a fair amount of the time you're going to put in three bets on the river and get nothing back, but enough of the time you're going to be putting in three bets on the river and getting 7 back. Only it's hard to remember the times you take half the pot, and it's hard to forget the times you get scooped.

This situation would be easier to react to if you had a read on your opponents, but when the nut low gets counterfeited on the river it creates one of those spots in LO8 where poor players put in lots of bets thinking they have half the hand locked up and cant stop clicking the raise button. I know your question is broader than that, but a deuce on the river is a trigger for that kind of mentality on this board.

Hope that helps.

-Tex

-Tex