Villians Who Love to Float the Flop: Theory Question

[creamfillin]

Most villains probably aren't "floating" you per say, they aren't thinking "hmmmm I don't think he hit that flop I'm going to call and take it away on the turn", it's more like "I has cards - CALLALLCLALL!!11". So you need to differentiate which villains are very loose and will call cbets with garbage and the more thinking type players. And don't feel obligated to cbet stations, some villains you can simply check when you miss and not lose much value because they'll call down anyway when you connect big.

To me a float isn't just flat calling a flop cbet with a marginal hand or air, but it includes a bluff or bet of some sorts on later streets. A villain who is a good floater and can successfully execute these multistreet bluffs is rare at 10NL so I don't think you have to worry about it. If you have a read that you are being floated, you can double barrel on a scare card, or double barrel semi-bluff. The double barrel semi-bluff can be a very profitable play when you have fold equity and solid outs to go along with it.
Another way to defend against a floater is to CR the turn. It rarely use this play and you should preferably have some outs to go along with it. I definitely recommend you don't go overboard on this stuff. Experiment with it, but it isn't going to make up a bulk of your profit at 10NL.

[VayaConDios]

[ QUOTE ]
Most villains probably aren't "floating" you per say, they aren't thinking "hmmmm I don't think he hit that flop I'm going to call and take it away on the turn", it's more like "I has cards - CALLALLCLALL!!11". So you need to differentiate which villains are very loose and will call cbets with garbage and the more thinking type players. And don't feel obligated to cbet stations, some villains you can simply check when you miss and not lose much value because they'll call down anyway when you connect big.

To me a float isn't just flat calling a flop cbet with a marginal hand or air, but it includes a bluff or bet of some sorts on later streets. A villain who is a good floater and can successfully execute these multistreet bluffs is rare at 10NL so I don't think you have to worry about it. If you have a read that you are being floated, you can double barrel on a scare card, or double barrel semi-bluff. The double barrel semi-bluff can be a very profitable play when you have fold equity and solid outs to go along with it.
Another way to defend against a floater is to CR the turn. It rarely use this play and you should preferably have some outs to go along with it. I definitely recommend you don't go overboard on this stuff. Experiment with it, but it isn't going to make up a bulk of your profit at 10NL.

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Yeah it's not many villains that are doing this; when I say "some" I mean a couple of specific regulars that I'm thinking of who do this well, and not megastations that never fold the flop but will always fold the turn or will call down with a marginal piece of the board.

The guys that I'm talking about do this with some degree of skill. Sometimes the flop call is with overs/air, sometimes with a marignal piece of the board such as middle pair hoping to improve, sometimes its with a strong holding that's slowplaying.

I understand the basic strategy to employ against these guys, such as c-betting less without the goods, stackadonk, etc. I've never seen anyone advocate overbetting the flop against them, which to me seems like a good idea as a way to (1) get more money into the pot with solid holdings; and (2) discourage them from floating or calling with marginal holdings (and allowing our c-bets to work more often).

[bozzer]

cbet less, 2 barrel more, but I doubt this is really a problem a 10nl.

[Vyse]

Check flops a bit more, go farther with 2nd pair, go farther with PPs... it's not hard, you know. I'm actually inclined to play and raise more hands with them since I know I can dominate them postflop, which is where the money is made.

[Jouster777]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm actually inclined to play and raise more hands with them ...

[/ QUOTE ]Only in position for me
(and if they aren't sitting on my right I'll move if I get the opportunity)

[abuljooj]

[ QUOTE ]
Most villains probably aren't "floating" you per say, they aren't thinking "hmmmm I don't think he hit that flop I'm going to call and take it away on the turn", it's more like "I has cards - CALLALLCLALL!!11". So you need to differentiate which villains are very loose and will call cbets with garbage and the more thinking type players. And don't feel obligated to cbet stations, some villains you can simply check when you miss and not lose much value because they'll call down anyway when you connect big.

To me a float isn't just flat calling a flop cbet with a marginal hand or air, but it includes a bluff or bet of some sorts on later streets. A villain who is a good floater and can successfully execute these multistreet bluffs is rare at 10NL so I don't think you have to worry about it. If you have a read that you are being floated, you can double barrel on a scare card, or double barrel semi-bluff. The double barrel semi-bluff can be a very profitable play when you have fold equity and solid outs to go along with it.
Another way to defend against a floater is to CR the turn. It rarely use this play and you should preferably have some outs to go along with it. I definitely recommend you don't go overboard on this stuff. Experiment with it, but it isn't going to make up a bulk of your profit at 10NL.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree on all of this. I think that at 10NL you're not running into many villians that even know what a float is. I think you should watch your villian more closely before you decide that he is floating and play him accordingly. I do love the cbet flop check turn line when you hit your hand if indeed he is floating otherwise you're giving him a free river which could be a disaster if he was just calling the flop with a draw and not floating.

Your strategy of tighten up and raise bigger PF against a floating villain is good, once again, only if you are fairly sure that villian has a float play in his book.

cheers,

[Vyse]

I don't mind playing OOP v them, been working on my OOP game anyway.

[EMc]

SHow some examples to get a better understanding.

[Archon_Wing]

-- I agree with Creamfillin that they are not as floating as much as we think. It happens that we get donked into the turn a lot and we're like ZOMG they're trying to steal the pot here. That's giving them way too much credit. Most of the time, they're not doing this with air. (at 10 nl)

-- I'd also agree with Vyse that you can look them up with more marginal holdings. Often times your 10nl regular is calling with something that loses to 2nd pair. Also, they will usually shut down on the river if you called the turn and you can see what they have. If they are really gonna 3 barrel you, then props to them, but more often then not they're just spweing.

IMO, continuation betting is something that a lot of people, even those who are horrible, will catch on to. It's just very noticable that you're being very aggressive. Almost any player will begin to look you up eventually. You should just realize that continuation betting simply won't work on stations that never believe you, and at low stakes like these you really have to look at who you're cont betting, otherwise you're just throwing money at a wall.

[Abramovic]

I havent read the responses but basically:

Dont cbet as often. Use the stackadonk line when you hit.